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| Just how reliable are the 3.6 996/997 engine? There are too many Kaboom! stories out there. porca911 - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 11:53:03 am |
Hi all, I have owned a 2002 911 C4S tiptronic since the start of the year and I am rather fond of it.
However in the past few weeks I have heard of two owners of friends of mine who's 997 Carrera S have developed a fault with their engines which requires expensive engine rebuilds!. Both are out of warranty too! ARHHH!!!
One was a scored piston liner (which sounds like a common issue) which creates a knocking noise.
The other was a big end bearing (also a knocking noise).
Now I know both of these were the 3.8 engine but it's making me nervous just the same. The internet forums are funny that way. All you tend to read about are failures or serious problems. But what worries me with the 996 is that the failures are looking rather commonly like they are engine failures. The most expensive part which I think is difficult to ignore.
So lets get a few things straight, we all know about the IMS bearing failure issue and oil leaks (both IMS or RMS).
I have also read loads about cracked piston liners on the 3.4 engines but I am interested to hear your views and knowledge with reards to other common engine failures with the 3.6 engines. Is the piston liner issue also a common issue with the 3.6 engines like I have in my C4S?
If I am honest about it I don't have the money or inclindation to spare the best part of $10.000 to have the engine re-built on my car. I only planned on owning it for a few years but now I am re-visiting that
Currently I see it is like this...
1/ If you want to own a used 996 pay for an aftermarket warranty which cost around £1000 ($1500) but only cover 50% of the parts cost and 100% of the labour.
2/ I keep it for a short term and sell it hopefully before it goes Kaboom!
3/ Keep it and prey it doesn't break - but it does kinda play on the back of my mind. Feels like I am playing Russian roulette I must add!
Looking forward to your comments!
However in the past few weeks I have heard of two owners of friends of mine who's 997 Carrera S have developed a fault with their engines which requires expensive engine rebuilds!. Both are out of warranty too! ARHHH!!!
One was a scored piston liner (which sounds like a common issue) which creates a knocking noise.
The other was a big end bearing (also a knocking noise).
Now I know both of these were the 3.8 engine but it's making me nervous just the same. The internet forums are funny that way. All you tend to read about are failures or serious problems. But what worries me with the 996 is that the failures are looking rather commonly like they are engine failures. The most expensive part which I think is difficult to ignore.
So lets get a few things straight, we all know about the IMS bearing failure issue and oil leaks (both IMS or RMS).
I have also read loads about cracked piston liners on the 3.4 engines but I am interested to hear your views and knowledge with reards to other common engine failures with the 3.6 engines. Is the piston liner issue also a common issue with the 3.6 engines like I have in my C4S?
If I am honest about it I don't have the money or inclindation to spare the best part of $10.000 to have the engine re-built on my car. I only planned on owning it for a few years but now I am re-visiting that
Currently I see it is like this...
1/ If you want to own a used 996 pay for an aftermarket warranty which cost around £1000 ($1500) but only cover 50% of the parts cost and 100% of the labour.
2/ I keep it for a short term and sell it hopefully before it goes Kaboom!
3/ Keep it and prey it doesn't break - but it does kinda play on the back of my mind. Feels like I am playing Russian roulette I must add!
Looking forward to your comments!
| Re: Just how reliable are the 3.6 996/997 engine? There are too many Kaboom! stories out there. db997S - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 12:54:19 pm |
The question is, what price do you place on peace of mind? If worrying about a huge repair bill kills the joy of driving the car, why continue to own it? Porsche, after all, is all about driving. If it wasn't, there are plenty of other expensive cars to tool around in. I have no experience with aftermarket warranties, but that sounds inexpensive if it does what it says. Let's say a used engine is 10,000 pounds, it's only 5,000 out of your pocket, plus the original 1,000 for the cost of the warranty. Yes, still some money, but for 1,000 pounds, pretty reasonable peace of mind if nothing goes wrong. If it's a good warranty, then I'd probably put down the money so I could go enjoy my car if it kept knawing at me that the engine will go poof at the most inappropriate time and place.
For me, my 2002 Boxster S had its IMS go under warranty. Didn't cost me a penny (pence in your case?). But, that was always in the back of my mind once the manufacture's warranty expired. It didn't, however, eat at me and take away from the joy of driving the car. That being said, in 2009, once Porsche designed the IMS out of its engines, I did trade it in for a 2009 997 S Cab. A risk in and of itself owning the first year of a newly designed engine. I have 18 months left under the warranty. So far, this car has been the second most reliable vehicle I've owned in my 33 years of driving. I plan on driving it "naked" until either I or the car dies, which ever comes first. In an ideal world, we'll both go out together.
That's a long way of saying, you and only you can answer your questions.
For me, my 2002 Boxster S had its IMS go under warranty. Didn't cost me a penny (pence in your case?). But, that was always in the back of my mind once the manufacture's warranty expired. It didn't, however, eat at me and take away from the joy of driving the car. That being said, in 2009, once Porsche designed the IMS out of its engines, I did trade it in for a 2009 997 S Cab. A risk in and of itself owning the first year of a newly designed engine. I have 18 months left under the warranty. So far, this car has been the second most reliable vehicle I've owned in my 33 years of driving. I plan on driving it "naked" until either I or the car dies, which ever comes first. In an ideal world, we'll both go out together.
That's a long way of saying, you and only you can answer your questions.
| You said in so many words my philosphy. In my own words... MarcW - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 2:18:01 pm |
I'm going to drive my Porsches and if they break I'll either fix, sell, or scrap the cars. What I do when (if) the time comes to make a decision I'll then decide but those are my options. I am not going to live in fear of something happening spoil my enjoyment of my cars.
When my Boxster went off warranty I decided to drive it sans any warranty (I'm not sure there was any other option at the time) and have not regretted it. Same with the Turbo. (There were a couple of other cars in between these two that I made the same decision about and never regretted it.)
On a related note, whenever I am ready to head out on a long road trip, I repeat the same mantra: If something goes wrong wrong with the car I'll either fix, sell, or scrap the car. Then I just enjoy the trip. I have a cell phone and premium AAA membership so I can at least get the car somewhere besides on the side of the road.
In all cases with my cars I drove the car enough that the warranty expired on miles and not on time, save the Turbo. The Turbo came with a 2 year, 100K mile CPO warranty and when I bought the car it had just over 10K miles. I had put about 50K miles on the car by the time the warranty expired on time which was in the ballpark of my goal to reach around 50K miles which I figured would be enough miles to bring out any weaknesses. So far, now with just over 90K miles, there have not been any other weaknesses.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
When my Boxster went off warranty I decided to drive it sans any warranty (I'm not sure there was any other option at the time) and have not regretted it. Same with the Turbo. (There were a couple of other cars in between these two that I made the same decision about and never regretted it.)
On a related note, whenever I am ready to head out on a long road trip, I repeat the same mantra: If something goes wrong wrong with the car I'll either fix, sell, or scrap the car. Then I just enjoy the trip. I have a cell phone and premium AAA membership so I can at least get the car somewhere besides on the side of the road.
In all cases with my cars I drove the car enough that the warranty expired on miles and not on time, save the Turbo. The Turbo came with a 2 year, 100K mile CPO warranty and when I bought the car it had just over 10K miles. I had put about 50K miles on the car by the time the warranty expired on time which was in the ballpark of my goal to reach around 50K miles which I figured would be enough miles to bring out any weaknesses. So far, now with just over 90K miles, there have not been any other weaknesses.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
MikenOH - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 2:26:38 pm |
| Yep, 90,222 miles as of this AM when I picked the car up at the dealer after some servicing. *NM* MarcW - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 2:38:55 pm |
MikenOH - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 2:23:17 pm |
Quote
porca911
Hi all, I have owned a 2002 911 C4S tiptronic since the start of the year and I am rather fond of it.
However in the past few weeks I have heard of two owners of friends of mine who's 997 Carrera S have developed a fault with their engines which requires expensive engine rebuilds!. Both are out of warranty too! ARHHH!!!
One was a scored piston liner (which sounds like a common issue) which creates a knocking noise.
The other was a big end bearing (also a knocking noise).
Now I know both of these were the 3.8 engine but it's making me nervous just the same. The internet forums are funny that way. All you tend to read about are failures or serious problems. But what worries me with the 996 is that the failures are looking rather commonly like they are engine failures. The most expensive part which I think is difficult to ignore.
So lets get a few things straight, we all know about the IMS bearing failure issue and oil leaks (both IMS or RMS).
I have also read loads about cracked piston liners on the 3.4 engines but I am interested to hear your views and knowledge with reards to other common engine failures with the 3.6 engines. Is the piston liner issue also a common issue with the 3.6 engines like I have in my C4S?
If I am honest about it I don't have the money or inclindation to spare the best part of $10.000 to have the engine re-built on my car. I only planned on owning it for a few years but now I am re-visiting that
Currently I see it is like this...
1/ If you want to own a used 996 pay for an aftermarket warranty which cost around £1000 ($1500) but only cover 50% of the parts cost and 100% of the labour.
2/ I keep it for a short term and sell it hopefully before it goes Kaboom!
3/ Keep it and prey it doesn't break - but it does kinda play on the back of my mind. Feels like I am playing Russian roulette I must add!
Looking forward to your comments!
IIRC, the 3.6L has fewer issues than the 3.4L in the 996 (liner failures).
Regarding the IMS, the 996 engine allows you to remove it while it's in the car, rather than needing the entire engine to be pulled and then split. In the US that usually runs about $2-3K for the LN/ Flat 6 revised IMS assy.(including labor and a new clutch). His website quotes the product in Pounds so I would guess he is supplying this product to the UK market.
[www.flat6innovations.com]
Regarding after maket warranties, it all depends on how much faith you put in the company that stands behind it; in the US, I've seen too many horror stories of people getting stiffed on these type of warranty claims for me pursue that option.
You can always sell it or hang on to it and keep your fingers crossed, but if I had a 996, I'd be putting in one of Jake's IMS assemblies.
BTW, you can evaluate--sort of--the current state of the IMS via an oil analysis/filter examination/durametric camshaft deviation test to see if the Kaboom is imminent, but it is not a sure thing.
Flat 6 also sells a IMS "guardian" which is a sensor that lights a warning light on the dash if metal particles are detected in the oil. Lots cheaper than the IMS replacement but it essentially just tells you to turn off the motor NOW before it is destroyed. You might sleep better knowing you have something like that in place to give you a heads up before an engine blows, rather than hearing a boom and seeing all thew warning lights come on.
So, you have some options; some of which don't cost very much on the front end, while others do. I guess it all depends on how much you're willing to spend ( or not) for peace of mind with this car.
Best of luck with it.
| And, to expand beyond IMS... grant - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 2:38:18 pm |
Let's set aside the IMS. I did this by doing the LN repalcement when my clutch needed repalcement. Done.
Other than that, i have foudn this motor to be very reliable, and many go 200k even if used hard. Mine runs like a new car; burns no oil, sounds like new, and is an 8-year odl car, with 45k and abotu 30 track days and a similar number of autocrosses. Zero problems (ok, one air-oil-seperator,no biggie)
Well made, one statistically weak (albeit major) part,that you can repalce.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Other than that, i have foudn this motor to be very reliable, and many go 200k even if used hard. Mine runs like a new car; burns no oil, sounds like new, and is an 8-year odl car, with 45k and abotu 30 track days and a similar number of autocrosses. Zero problems (ok, one air-oil-seperator,no biggie)
Well made, one statistically weak (albeit major) part,that you can repalce.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Burg Boxster - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 3:25:43 pm |
gorilla marketed on websites, forums and magazines?
Just to be clear, I've never said the IMS or any part of a Porsche motor is bullet-proof. There are weaknesses... same as with all things mechanical. However, the sky doesn't fall and certainly not every day.
Pretty soon I'm gonna have to give up my subscription to exce11ence. Why? Because all I keep reading about is one catastrophic failure after another w/ modern Porsches. Everything from horribly engineered buttons on a remote key, AOS, Water Pumps, Rotors, Horns, Radiators, etc. ,etc., etc...
It's a miracle I can ever get the darn clunker out of my garage... let alone in close proximity to other junkers.
Oh wait, maybe this a Porsche only bone yard:
Just to be clear, I've never said the IMS or any part of a Porsche motor is bullet-proof. There are weaknesses... same as with all things mechanical. However, the sky doesn't fall and certainly not every day.
Pretty soon I'm gonna have to give up my subscription to exce11ence. Why? Because all I keep reading about is one catastrophic failure after another w/ modern Porsches. Everything from horribly engineered buttons on a remote key, AOS, Water Pumps, Rotors, Horns, Radiators, etc. ,etc., etc...
It's a miracle I can ever get the darn clunker out of my garage... let alone in close proximity to other junkers.
Oh wait, maybe this a Porsche only bone yard:
| was this a reply to me? I'm befuddled.... *NM* grant - Thursday, 26 April, 2012, at 10:32:02 am |
Burg Boxster - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 3:40:15 pm |
.JPG)
Gary in SoFL - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 3:59:51 pm |
| Re: Just how reliable are the 3.6 996/997 engine? There are too many Kaboom! stories out there. Guenter in Ontario - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 5:01:26 pm |
Quote
porca911
1/ If you want to own a used 996 pay for an aftermarket warranty which cost around £1000 ($1500) but only cover 50% of the parts cost and 100% of the labour.
2/ I keep it for a short term and sell it hopefully before it goes Kaboom!
3/ Keep it and prey it doesn't break - but it does kinda play on the back of my mind. Feels like I am playing Russian roulette I must add!
Looking forward to your comments!
Just a word of caution about aftermarket insurance. I'm not sure how good a deal this one is. For how long and how many miles are you covered for this $1500?
Have you researched this company to find out how long they've been in business and how satisfied people are with their service? Google is your friend.
There have been people who've paid out this much in premiums and even more, only to find that when they had a claim, the company either had clauses stating certain things that weren't covered or in some cases, the company had gone Kaboom.
Guenter
2014 Boxster S
GT Silver, 6 Speed Manual, Bi-Xenons, Sports Suspension (lowers car 20mm), Porsche Sports Exhaust, Porsche Torque Vectoring, Auto Climate control, heated and vented seats, 20" Carrera S Wheels, Pedro's TechNoWind, Sport Design steering wheel, Roll bars in GT Silver
[www.cyberdesignconcepts.com]
| We are all gonna die of something mikefocke, '01S Sanford, NC - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 5:55:05 pm |
And so are the engines in every car we buy. You will hear from people who had problems, the ones who are out driving their cars are generally too busy to reply.
And for someone with a 3.8 motor to ask on a Boxster forum...why would we know a lot about motors we don't have?
I've owned a 2.5 for 6 months and a 3.2 for 5 years and they were more reliable than any of the other ~30 cars I've owned. Of course any car can go boom tomorrow.
Generally I don't believe in extended warranties...haven't bought them for any car, appliance or electronics I've had and I'm way ahead over a lifetime of owning lots of stuff. Mechanics hate to deal with them, many are downright shady and or backed by doubtful financials or corporate structures. Of course the situation in other countries may be different.
If you already own the car, you have suffered the reputation depreciation already in terms of what the car is worth. So why sell it for pence.
Loved mine.
And for someone with a 3.8 motor to ask on a Boxster forum...why would we know a lot about motors we don't have?
I've owned a 2.5 for 6 months and a 3.2 for 5 years and they were more reliable than any of the other ~30 cars I've owned. Of course any car can go boom tomorrow.
Generally I don't believe in extended warranties...haven't bought them for any car, appliance or electronics I've had and I'm way ahead over a lifetime of owning lots of stuff. Mechanics hate to deal with them, many are downright shady and or backed by doubtful financials or corporate structures. Of course the situation in other countries may be different.
If you already own the car, you have suffered the reputation depreciation already in terms of what the car is worth. So why sell it for pence.
Loved mine.
| A word for anyone fretting about the reliability of their Porsche Roger987 - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 8:35:30 pm |
Gary in SoFL - Thursday, 26 April, 2012, at 1:39:26 am |
| The Porsche lure is just too strong. They are to seductive to let go. porca911 - Thursday, 26 April, 2012, at 9:14:17 am |
Thanks for all the comments so far guys. They are all noted and have actually helped. To be honest every time I read too much and think to my self, probably best not to keep it too long - one look at the car has me changing my mind. "Look at her, she looks Amazing!" To me from certain angles perhaps even as good as some of the earlier attachments! Having owned Boxster's in the past the 911 has always been on my wish list.
Apologies if I have posted on a Boxster only forum, I thought this was a Porsche (inclusive) forum
A friend or a friend works at a Porsche main dealer. He started as a mechanic and is not as I understand it rather high up in the service side of things. Having provided him with my VIN number he is going to let me know all the work which has ever been completed on the car and his opinion on how "reliable" the engines are. A quick txt said - don't worry they are pretty reliable since the 2002 upgrades. Which is when they increased from 3.4 to 3.6. And I can also check if it is still possible (shes 10 years old this summer) to get an extended warranty from OPD if I am still concerned. I like to have options.
I think I will adopts MarcW advice to start each journey with a mantra "whenever I am ready to head out on a long road trip, I repeat the same mantra: If something goes wrong with the car I'll either fix, sell, or scrap the car. Then I just enjoy the trip." Loving that!
Apologies if I have posted on a Boxster only forum, I thought this was a Porsche (inclusive) forum
A friend or a friend works at a Porsche main dealer. He started as a mechanic and is not as I understand it rather high up in the service side of things. Having provided him with my VIN number he is going to let me know all the work which has ever been completed on the car and his opinion on how "reliable" the engines are. A quick txt said - don't worry they are pretty reliable since the 2002 upgrades. Which is when they increased from 3.4 to 3.6. And I can also check if it is still possible (shes 10 years old this summer) to get an extended warranty from OPD if I am still concerned. I like to have options.
I think I will adopts MarcW advice to start each journey with a mantra "whenever I am ready to head out on a long road trip, I repeat the same mantra: If something goes wrong with the car I'll either fix, sell, or scrap the car. Then I just enjoy the trip." Loving that!
MikenOH - Thursday, 26 April, 2012, at 10:09:06 am |
FWIW, I've owned 2 boxsters in the past 12 years--a '99' and a '06'.
I traded the first on the 06 with 40k on it and had zero problems after many auto-x days combined with a few track days.
I've currently got 38K on the 06 averaging 6-10 track days a year since new. I have not had one repair on this car since new, just normal maintenance items.
A recent oil analysis, oil filter exam and durametric cam deviation check show nothing abnormal going on, with the cam deviation readings stable and practically no deviation shown. While this isn't absolute proof that the motor will last 100k miles, it's a good indicator that things are as they should be for now(knock on wood.
I think what I 've learned is that if your take care of the maintenance--or even do a bit more of oil changes--the vast bulk of these cars will last a long time without a major repair.
I traded the first on the 06 with 40k on it and had zero problems after many auto-x days combined with a few track days.
I've currently got 38K on the 06 averaging 6-10 track days a year since new. I have not had one repair on this car since new, just normal maintenance items.
A recent oil analysis, oil filter exam and durametric cam deviation check show nothing abnormal going on, with the cam deviation readings stable and practically no deviation shown. While this isn't absolute proof that the motor will last 100k miles, it's a good indicator that things are as they should be for now(knock on wood
.I think what I 've learned is that if your take care of the maintenance--or even do a bit more of oil changes--the vast bulk of these cars will last a long time without a major repair.
MikenOH - Thursday, 26 April, 2012, at 10:10:13 am |
FWIW, I've owned 2 boxsters in the past 12 years--a '99' and a '06'.
I traded the first on the 06 with 40k on it and had zero problems after many auto-x days combined with a few track days.
I've currently got 38K on the 06 averaging 6-10 track days a year since new. I have not had one repair on this car since new, just normal maintenance items.
A recent oil analysis, oil filter exam and durametric cam deviation check show nothing abnormal going on, with the cam deviation readings stable and practically no deviation shown. While this isn't absolute proof that the motor will last 100k miles, it's a good indicator that things are as they should be for now(knock on wood.
I think what I 've learned from this is that if your take care of the maintenance--or even do a bit more of oil changes--the vast bulk of these cars will last a long time without a major repair.
I traded the first on the 06 with 40k on it and had zero problems after many auto-x days combined with a few track days.
I've currently got 38K on the 06 averaging 6-10 track days a year since new. I have not had one repair on this car since new, just normal maintenance items.
A recent oil analysis, oil filter exam and durametric cam deviation check show nothing abnormal going on, with the cam deviation readings stable and practically no deviation shown. While this isn't absolute proof that the motor will last 100k miles, it's a good indicator that things are as they should be for now(knock on wood
.I think what I 've learned from this is that if your take care of the maintenance--or even do a bit more of oil changes--the vast bulk of these cars will last a long time without a major repair.
MikenOH - Thursday, 26 April, 2012, at 10:57:37 am |
| Re: A word for anyone fretting about the reliability of their Porsche Roger987 - Thursday, 26 April, 2012, at 11:41:33 am |
| During the 8 years of 996 ownership my Porsche was no more or less reliable Naples986 - Wednesday, 25 April, 2012, at 10:22:34 pm |
than any other car I have owned. Just look at all the bad press Toyota got last year. I know their engines don't go Kaboom or do they and you just don't hear about it (look up Toyota sludge build up). You don't read about everyday cars with problems because who wants to post on a blog about the joys of driving you daily motor to the market 
, you own a Porsche not everyone gets that chance. Enjoy your motor 
, you own a Porsche not everyone gets that chance. Enjoy your motor | Re: During the 8 years of 996 ownership my Porsche was no more or less reliable db997S - Thursday, 26 April, 2012, at 8:33:03 am |
Boxsterra - Thursday, 26 April, 2012, at 1:01:46 am |
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