Re: Nice setup, Pedro |  |  |
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| Tire Feedback - Yoko Advan Nueva AD-08 grant - Sunday, 24 June, 2012, at 3:14:15 pm |
As you may recall, i ate up a set of Khumo SPTs pretty badly in 3 days at Mid-Ohio, and they held me back badly to boot. So i went looking for a fix. Many of you provided great input. Thanks.
I settled on the Yoko AD-08s - a ~160 treadwear, very low-void ratio tire. I also changed the fronts from 205/50-17 to 225/45-17 to tame some understeer and give more rubber to absorb abuse.
I drove them around town a bit, then down to NJMP, 3 days on Thunderbolt, back and around town a bit more. So i finally feel like i can give some meaningful data.
For those who dont know Thunderbolt, it was well described by one of our Chiefs as "half fast track, half autocross". Good description. Its is very fast on the front, but the back is a very tight series of long reversing curves called the Octopus. In this was its fairly similar to Mid Ohio. The octopus KILLS tires with interminable grinding around the tight, 180-270 degree turns.
These didn't die. They held up quite well. So mission accomplished on that note.
But they had more virtues. These stick much better than the Khumos, and better also than the Michelin PS-Ribs i had before the Khumos (note: the michelins were both stickier and more durable than the chums, but also twice the price). From what i could tell the Yokos break fairly gradually as well. Feel, stability etc all seem very good. I liked them a lot on track.
They are notably soft. They feel soft to the touch - you can push your fingernail in like clay. Durable clay. In the moderate heat at T-bolt they collected tons of rubber, and tons of other debris. This does result in a rough a noisy ride when all that stuff is there - and much remains after the 150 mile trip home and a few more trips. Incidentally, i ran them in heavy rain the other night and they seem fine.
In fact they are noisy and rough all the time. At low speeds i get a feel/sound like a front wheel bearing is going. I hope its not rally a wheel bearing - it doesn't change going left vs right, and it decreases with speed so i think not.
The next comments are inevitable corollaries of what i have said but understeer is greatly reduced ( i think much due to the 225/45 size) and slip angles are smaller. In that respect they give less feel. Braking is better, with less squirm and wander. The wider tires tramline more. Duh.
These would not be my first choice for street driving; even aggressive street driving. But these work on the track, especially tight roller-coaster tracks where boxsters can eat 911s.
Next im on a mission to dial in a little more caster up front - aka camber on demand :-) ideas?
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
I settled on the Yoko AD-08s - a ~160 treadwear, very low-void ratio tire. I also changed the fronts from 205/50-17 to 225/45-17 to tame some understeer and give more rubber to absorb abuse.
I drove them around town a bit, then down to NJMP, 3 days on Thunderbolt, back and around town a bit more. So i finally feel like i can give some meaningful data.
For those who dont know Thunderbolt, it was well described by one of our Chiefs as "half fast track, half autocross". Good description. Its is very fast on the front, but the back is a very tight series of long reversing curves called the Octopus. In this was its fairly similar to Mid Ohio. The octopus KILLS tires with interminable grinding around the tight, 180-270 degree turns.
These didn't die. They held up quite well. So mission accomplished on that note.
But they had more virtues. These stick much better than the Khumos, and better also than the Michelin PS-Ribs i had before the Khumos (note: the michelins were both stickier and more durable than the chums, but also twice the price). From what i could tell the Yokos break fairly gradually as well. Feel, stability etc all seem very good. I liked them a lot on track.
They are notably soft. They feel soft to the touch - you can push your fingernail in like clay. Durable clay. In the moderate heat at T-bolt they collected tons of rubber, and tons of other debris. This does result in a rough a noisy ride when all that stuff is there - and much remains after the 150 mile trip home and a few more trips. Incidentally, i ran them in heavy rain the other night and they seem fine.
In fact they are noisy and rough all the time. At low speeds i get a feel/sound like a front wheel bearing is going. I hope its not rally a wheel bearing - it doesn't change going left vs right, and it decreases with speed so i think not.
The next comments are inevitable corollaries of what i have said but understeer is greatly reduced ( i think much due to the 225/45 size) and slip angles are smaller. In that respect they give less feel. Braking is better, with less squirm and wander. The wider tires tramline more. Duh.
These would not be my first choice for street driving; even aggressive street driving. But these work on the track, especially tight roller-coaster tracks where boxsters can eat 911s.
Next im on a mission to dial in a little more caster up front - aka camber on demand :-) ideas?
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
MikenOH - Sunday, 24 June, 2012, at 9:02:23 pm |
Sounds like a big improvement, Grant; glad they've worked out for you.
With these sticky tires now you need a good track pad/fluid--what are you using now?
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, any plans for a second set of rims for your non track tires? I have to say, driving street tires at the track is just a loosing proposition--they get chewed up fast, while not providing the steering response/traction that you need. Once they get beat up, they aren't much of a street tire either.
Can't help you on the caster, but are you still on track to change out the suspension? If so, which one?
With these sticky tires now you need a good track pad/fluid--what are you using now?
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, any plans for a second set of rims for your non track tires? I have to say, driving street tires at the track is just a loosing proposition--they get chewed up fast, while not providing the steering response/traction that you need. Once they get beat up, they aren't much of a street tire either.
Can't help you on the caster, but are you still on track to change out the suspension? If so, which one?
| Many answers grant - Tuesday, 26 June, 2012, at 8:33:48 pm |
I have been using track pads (Stoptech 309s) for about 18 months, and ate super 200 fluid - no problems there. They lose some Cf but don't melt. Cheap; safe, work on the street quietly. Not bad. I may have to go another step up, but not yet - then it'll likely be Yellows and switching back and forth (yuk).
I've also had two sets of wheels for ages, but no trailer yet. Without the trailer, i can't count on a way to get them to the track. So the yokos were chosen mostly to be those tires i could drive on the track and to/from - and they seem to work. I'll use up the old Khumos on the street where they are frankly more comfortable anyway.
Not doing any suspension just yet. On change at a time. If i do change, i think ROW030 likely, since if i get even more serious at the track i think a track car would be the path to take - a closed car (cayman) that i can ignore compromises on. Not any time soon, though.
Caster is my next project.....
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
I've also had two sets of wheels for ages, but no trailer yet. Without the trailer, i can't count on a way to get them to the track. So the yokos were chosen mostly to be those tires i could drive on the track and to/from - and they seem to work. I'll use up the old Khumos on the street where they are frankly more comfortable anyway.
Not doing any suspension just yet. On change at a time. If i do change, i think ROW030 likely, since if i get even more serious at the track i think a track car would be the path to take - a closed car (cayman) that i can ignore compromises on. Not any time soon, though.
Caster is my next project.....
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
MikenOH - Tuesday, 26 June, 2012, at 9:16:28 pm |
When I go to a distant track--VIR/WG--I usually have somebody carry my track tires in their vehicle or in their trailer.
Most of the guys that trailer their cars have enough room either in the back of the truck or in their trailer to handle another set of tires.
The ROW 030 sounds like a great deal, especially if you can find one used; I'll keep an eye peeled for one.
Also, Pedro's deal on the extra 20+ HP looks like a good deal; at some point after the suspension changes and more lap time, the additional HP will be appreciated.
Most of the guys that trailer their cars have enough room either in the back of the truck or in their trailer to handle another set of tires.
The ROW 030 sounds like a great deal, especially if you can find one used; I'll keep an eye peeled for one.
Also, Pedro's deal on the extra 20+ HP looks like a good deal; at some point after the suspension changes and more lap time, the additional HP will be appreciated.
| re: new vs used row 030 i decided the other way.... grant - Tuesday, 26 June, 2012, at 9:50:36 pm |
$1200 new vs $800 used to me, is a no brainer. Go new. but i'm not sure i want this car lowered for the next 15+ years i plan to enjoy it on the road (not track)... which is why i may simply suffer the ignominy of slowness for now, then get a track car ... when my skills deserve it.
G
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
G
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
| That's not a fair ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Wednesday, 27 June, 2012, at 9:50:26 am |
... comparison, between those tires.
The Kumho Ecsta SPT is a good high-performance summer tire with 280 treadwear.
The Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08 is an extreme performance summer tire with 180 treadwear.
Regarding the trailer, you can get an inexpensive yet very versatile trailer at Harbor freight, like this one for $189.99.
[www.harborfreight.com]
I have one just like it to which I added a 1/2" marine plywood deck, a plastic, lockable tool chest from Home Depot and some wheel chocks from harbor Freight.
I also added some 1" eyelets that hold everything together and serve to anchor the ratcheting straps.
It's very efficient, well balanced. It only adds 35 lbs on the tongue when fully loaded), like this with:
4 racing wheel/tires, full set of tools and spares, including a hydraulic jack, a bicycle and two 10' x 10' tents, like this:
[i83.photobucket.com]
[i83.photobucket.com]
[i83.photobucket.com]
[i83.photobucket.com]
In a few minutes it can be converted into a little flat-bed for hauling Christmas trees, luggage, even a pressure washer.
[i83.photobucket.com]
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
The Kumho Ecsta SPT is a good high-performance summer tire with 280 treadwear.
The Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08 is an extreme performance summer tire with 180 treadwear.
Regarding the trailer, you can get an inexpensive yet very versatile trailer at Harbor freight, like this one for $189.99.
[www.harborfreight.com]
I have one just like it to which I added a 1/2" marine plywood deck, a plastic, lockable tool chest from Home Depot and some wheel chocks from harbor Freight.
I also added some 1" eyelets that hold everything together and serve to anchor the ratcheting straps.
It's very efficient, well balanced. It only adds 35 lbs on the tongue when fully loaded), like this with:
4 racing wheel/tires, full set of tools and spares, including a hydraulic jack, a bicycle and two 10' x 10' tents, like this:
[i83.photobucket.com]
[i83.photobucket.com]
[i83.photobucket.com]
[i83.photobucket.com]
In a few minutes it can be converted into a little flat-bed for hauling Christmas trees, luggage, even a pressure washer.
[i83.photobucket.com]
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
MikenOH - Wednesday, 27 June, 2012, at 10:38:51 am |
I forgot about the HF trailer as an option.
Grant, somebody in your club with a blue base 986 had this setup last year at WG and it worked well for him.
Pedro--how stable is this trailer at highway speeds? Does this come with electrical hookups for the brake lights or do you have to add it?
Grant, somebody in your club with a blue base 986 had this setup last year at WG and it worked well for him.
Pedro--how stable is this trailer at highway speeds? Does this come with electrical hookups for the brake lights or do you have to add it?
| Re: Nice setup, Pedro Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Wednesday, 27 June, 2012, at 11:03:36 am |
The trailer comes disassembled, and includes the electricals.
I added the front jack/wheel so that I can unhitch it from the car and it's still level.
It's VERY stable at high speeds, at least with the 12" wheels. I've had it up into triple digits.
I just worry about the tires going that fast, but generally I have a 2 hour drive at 75 mph to Sebring and it's never been a problem.
I also added a spare bolted to the bottom side of the plywood deck and I also take two Rhino Ramps which you can see in the first picture under the tent in the front.
You'll need a 5-to-3 adapter for the car. The Boxster has a 5 wire harness:
1.- ground
2.- 12 volt to stop
3.- 12 volt to running lights
4.- 12 volt to left turn signal
5- 12 volt to right turn signal
The trailer has a 3 wire system because it combines the stop with the turn signal, therefore you need the adapter.
It's really a very nice, reliable and affordable option for a street car that goes to the track.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
I added the front jack/wheel so that I can unhitch it from the car and it's still level.
It's VERY stable at high speeds, at least with the 12" wheels. I've had it up into triple digits.
I just worry about the tires going that fast, but generally I have a 2 hour drive at 75 mph to Sebring and it's never been a problem.
I also added a spare bolted to the bottom side of the plywood deck and I also take two Rhino Ramps which you can see in the first picture under the tent in the front.
You'll need a 5-to-3 adapter for the car. The Boxster has a 5 wire harness:
1.- ground
2.- 12 volt to stop
3.- 12 volt to running lights
4.- 12 volt to left turn signal
5- 12 volt to right turn signal
The trailer has a 3 wire system because it combines the stop with the turn signal, therefore you need the adapter.
It's really a very nice, reliable and affordable option for a street car that goes to the track.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Gary in SoFL - Wednesday, 27 June, 2012, at 1:48:04 pm |
Boxsterra - Thursday, 28 June, 2012, at 11:46:56 am |
| I don't know about Sebring, but ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Thursday, 28 June, 2012, at 4:18:44 pm |
... last year for BRBS 13, coming up 226A I was towing my trailer and no one could get away from me 
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Gary in SoFL - Thursday, 28 June, 2012, at 4:34:37 pm |
Harvey in FL - Thursday, 28 June, 2012, at 5:11:02 pm |
| I like that photo... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Friday, 29 June, 2012, at 2:50:14 pm |
... coming out of the hairpin, under power.
Thanks Harvey.
Happy Porscheing,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Thanks Harvey.
Happy Porscheing,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
 *NM* Harvey in FL - Friday, 29 June, 2012, at 4:01:16 pm |
| FYI - i am evaluating one from a club member *NM* grant - Sunday, 1 July, 2012, at 6:05:29 pm |
Dave In MD - Thursday, 28 June, 2012, at 7:00:45 pm |
towed behind the car with a Willwood hitch. The 5 to 3 box for the lights is wired to the taillights and I just run it out beside the spoiler. The blue tape keeps the wire from rubbing on the bumper. I got the HF spare tire and mount which also servers as a ground point to keep the tongue off the dirt. Wheels are strapped to eye bolts and the tool box keeps my jack, impact wrench and some tools and is a lockable one (although plastic).
Hadn't thought of the wheel chocks. I like that better actually. Ok, more work to be done...
oh, and I've had it to 80. It rides great behind the car!
Dave - 06 987 S coupe SG/NL; gone (but still my first love): 03 986 AS/GG/BK;
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2012 07:01PM by Dave In MD. (view changes)
Hadn't thought of the wheel chocks. I like that better actually. Ok, more work to be done...
oh, and I've had it to 80. It rides great behind the car!
Dave - 06 987 S coupe SG/NL; gone (but still my first love): 03 986 AS/GG/BK;
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2012 07:01PM by Dave In MD. (view changes)
| ye, that's on my radar.... grant - Thursday, 28 June, 2012, at 10:05:27 pm |
| Storage is no problem .... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Friday, 29 June, 2012, at 2:56:10 pm |
... with the little trailer.
I mounted the tail lights closer to the fenders so that they would be recessed from the back edge.
So, when you want to store it, just back it up against the back (or side) wall of the garage and lift the tongue straight up.
You can secure the tongue with a hook or chain screwed into the wall at about 6' high.
All that would stick out is the width of the tires, plus the fender (14-18").
I thought about a tire bar, but that would have made it more cumbersome and I couldn't store it as described above.
With the wheel chocks and ratcheting straps it's very secure. For overnight and/or redundant safety, I use a security cable through the whleels and padlocked to the front of the tongue.
I've stayed at motels overnight without any issues.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
I mounted the tail lights closer to the fenders so that they would be recessed from the back edge.
So, when you want to store it, just back it up against the back (or side) wall of the garage and lift the tongue straight up.
You can secure the tongue with a hook or chain screwed into the wall at about 6' high.
All that would stick out is the width of the tires, plus the fender (14-18").
I thought about a tire bar, but that would have made it more cumbersome and I couldn't store it as described above.
With the wheel chocks and ratcheting straps it's very secure. For overnight and/or redundant safety, I use a security cable through the whleels and padlocked to the front of the tongue.
I've stayed at motels overnight without any issues.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
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