If you use the ...

I have a 2000 Boxster S.

This will be my third in 70K miles. Not so good. WOW, it seems that both the pump and thermostat seal up with a steel gasket and no gasket sealer or silicone. Is that correct?

Also, I seem to have the bolts all mixed up. There are 5 all the same length, and two long. Those appear to be for the two sleeved fittings on the pump housing--the short little fitting sleeves on each side of the pump housing. Sound right?

I'm not so confident I can seal that without a leak, but I'll try.

Can I use the Bentley method to re-pressurize, without buying that special tool I'll never use again? The Bentley manual says that you just flip up the bleeder lever, protect the trunk carpet with towels, run, rev, fill, run fill, etc. Can I do it that way or am I looking for trouble.

Thanks all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2012 02:21AM by kentv1. (view changes)

Quote
kentv1
I have a 2000 Boxster S.

This will be my third in 70K miles. Not so good. WOW, it seems that both the pump and thermostat seal up with a steel gasket and no gasket sealer or silicone. Is that correct?

Also, I seem to have the bolts all mixed up. There are 5 all the same length, and two long. Those appear to be for the two sleeved fittings on the pump housing--the short little fitting sleeves on each side of the pump housing. Sound right?

I'm not so confident I can seal that without a leak, but I'll try.

Can I use the Bentley method to re-pressurize, without buying that special tool I'll never use again? The Bentley manual says that you just flip up the bleeder lever, protect the trunk carpet with towels, run, rev, fill, run fill, etc. Can I do it that way or am I looking for trouble.

Thanks all.

sorted out and their correct position known.

One way is to without the water pump in place, thread -- by hand -- each bolt into a hole and find which bolts can be threaded in deep enough by hand to clearly belong in that hole because they thread in enough that they can provide all the clamping power to the water pump.

If you get it wrong you can thread in a too long a bolt in to too shallow a hole and crack the block.

I like to toss a new t-stat and and old t-stat in a pan of water on the stove and heat the water and with a digital thermometer note the temp at which both t-stat's open and are fully open -- and both are open the same amount.

You want to make sure the new t-stat works at all and also that it opens fully at the same temp as the old t-stat assuming the old one's working right and is the right part.

I do not like that manual cooling system refilling technique that has the engine run at high rpms to raise the coolant temp and make room for more coolant, and so on. Ugly.

And to the amatuer mechanic this technique is a chance to screw things up.

Even if I only used the vacuum lift/refill system once I'd still buy one and use it rather than risk doing more harm than good.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

.. and apparently these engines are fussy about such things. in my Audi i just ran a garden hose through it to flush, then refilled, opened the cap a few times,and voila. Not so here apparently.

I am resigned to either have a shop do this job when the time comes or buy the darned thing too. And store it to hopefully never be used again by me :-)

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

... that fail prematurely.
It also involves the coolant reservoir.
I've noted that most of those cases had air in their system due to a bad cap or air was not purged completely the previous time.
When an air pocket hits the impeller of the water pump it runs without lubrication which can cause premature failure.
An air pocket at the pump will also make the impeller cavitate which can also cause it to fail prematurelly.
I've yet to replace a water pump in either of my Boxsters.
One had 80K when I sold it with the original pump and the other one had 207K miles when I replaced the engine with the original pump.
I always hear people saying that they topped off their coolant. If you have to top it off you either had some air in the system or you have a coolant leak.
In almost 15 years I've never had to add any coolant to my car as a top off.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 09:58AM by Pedro (Weston, FL). (view changes)

160k miles and I've never replaced my water pump

to occur at the water pump impeller.

There are also those cooling systems that have a pressure leak.

In my opinion there is no such thing as a minor pressure leak in the cooling system. If the system can't hold pressure this is a sign a vital system necessary to the engine's continued good health is not up to its task and this needs to be corrected. ASAP.

Cavitation can take out ship props, turbine blades and other very strong blades/impellers so it can certainly cause grief with a plastic impeller of a Boxster water pump. Sure, the impeller is tough plastic to be sure, but still. This I think accounts for some water pump failures that have the thing come apart.

I have preached often how important it is a properly functioning cooling system is vital to these engines and that includes its water pump.

My 02 Boxster's original water pump lasted around 170K miles. The system lost coolant after I hit some road debris and busted a radiator (at the bottom) but that was years prior to the water pump failing. The cooling system also got the benefit of having its coolant renewed because the original coolant of course leaked out from the damaged radiator.

But closer to the water pump's failure the coolant cap was leaking and the cooling system lost coolant to the point the warning light came on. I filled the tank and drove the car but it lost coolant again and this time I spotted water condensation around the cap area and a light bulb (at least a 40 watt bulb too!) went off over my head and I replaced the cap. Leaked fixed.

But the water pump failed not too long after. The impellers were ok but the thing got noisy (low grumbly sound).

This brings up yet another explanation for pump failures: The pump is bad but ignored or the owner thinks he can nurse the sick pump a few more miles. But the bearing play gets so bad the impeller blades make contact with the block and the pump blades break off. This possibility came to me when I have my Boxster's water pump go bad and spotted signs the blade tops have made contact with the block. Also, I noted the serpentine belt was rubbing -- its inner edge was sharp -- and this opened my eyes that the pump shaft was being pulled out of position which given the very tight clearance between the pump impeller blades and the block these could start to rub or worse against the block metal.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Quote
kentv1
This will be my third in 70K miles.

Quote
kentv1
Can I use the Bentley method to re-pressurize, without buying that special tool I'll never use again?

Are you sure about that? You're on your third waterpump. Just think, if you bought the AirLift for your first waterpump change, the subsequent two would be free usage!

---would be a must if you owned a shop. For a home mechanic, it is not a big deal to fill and open the bleeder and keep an eye on the level for a few days. I flushed my system a year or so ago without any issues, and without the vacuum tool.

Don't get me wrong, I think the tool is very cool and if available, I would have used it but oh well.

dghii
2000 Boxster S 6speed 112k miles

I forgot to mention. My impeller is cracked and chipped, and the center pin and bearing are wobbly. I've never seen a water pump so destroyed, but this is my first Porsche. I'm convinced I got a bad pump last time from the dealer, or maybe bad installation. My first one went out after about 42,000 miles. Great cars all the same.

Replaced mine at about 60K when I was doing pulleys. It was the original, so 10 years old and was still in pretty good shape. Just a tiny bit of movement in the shaft. I agree with those here that refilling without a special tool and watching the level for a few days is all that is necessary. I have had no issues since.

I know I'm obsessing, but no gasket sealer? I'm having trouble imagining that being ok.

... correct torque values, the metal gasket is all that's needed.
It won't leak.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Quote
Pedro (Weston, FL)
... correct torque values, the metal gasket is all that's needed.
It won't leak.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

How can I possibly get a torque wrench in that space? I don't think I can fit mine on more than 2 of the seven bolts. Do you suggest using special adaptors or fittings on the wrench?

[pedrosgarage.com]

If you do it this way, there's plenty of room to work.

Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Just to bring this thread along:

Now that I've got my new water pump installed, and having searched everywhere, I'm concerned that I couldn't find the little chips off my old impeller. I'm curious why they didn't drop out with the coolant. I'd think that chipped impellers are common. Where do they go? They're also not in my thermostat housing.

About the torque on those seven bolts, I actually was able to get to 5 of them. I torqued to 7 lbs. So, on two I had to guess. I'm not comfortable dropping the engine mount to reach the remaining two, and not sure I could even then.

And, by the way, would it be correct that using a flex-socket with a torque wrench would distort the values?

Oh, I guess I'm mention another thing. That new pump of mine has a slight "ringing" to it when I free-spin it. I hope that's just the bearing without the lubrication from the coolant. I hope.

Quote
kentv1
Just to bring this thread along:

Now that I've got my new water pump installed, and having searched everywhere, I'm concerned that I couldn't find the little chips off my old impeller. I'm curious why they didn't drop out with the coolant. I'd think that chipped impellers are common. Where do they go? They're also not in my thermostat housing.

About the torque on those seven bolts, I actually was able to get to 5 of them. I torqued to 7 lbs. So, on two I had to guess. I'm not comfortable dropping the engine mount to reach the remaining two, and not sure I could even then.

And, by the way, would it be correct that using a flex-socket with a torque wrench would distort the values?

Oh, I guess I'm mention another thing. That new pump of mine has a slight "ringing" to it when I free-spin it. I hope that's just the bearing without the lubrication from the coolant. I hope.

you would probably have to back flush the cooling system.

In this case you would have to rig something up to force water to flow the opposite direction through the radiators. The water would be routed to the radiators from their outlet hoses and then allowed to run out from their inlet hoses.

Then you would have to rig something up to to force water to flow in the opposite direction through the engine. The water would be routed into the engine at the engine's coolant outlet fitting and then allowed to run out from the engine's coolant inlet fitting.

In both cases you would want to catch this water and observe what if anything it has in it.

Ideally, you would want to see enough material that would account for the missing impeller blade material.

The above is done before the water pump and t-stat are installed.

The radiators and their inlet/outlet lines are treated as a separate system as is the engine and its coolant inlet/outlets.

The "ringing" you report may be the new water pump's impeller blades making slight contact with the surface of the block cavity/depression into which the impeller resides.

This contact may be on purpose.

The gap between the impeller blades and the block want to be as small as possible to make the pump as efficient as possible. I could see the impeller blades being made (on purpose) just a tiny bit too "tall" and upon initial engine start up with a new impeller (either at the factory or after a water pump was replaced) there being some slight blade wear and thus the blades end up having a real close fit to the block.

Or the water pump could be the wrong pump. That is while it is advertised as being identical to an OE (original equipment) water pump, is just an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) water pump. The difference is the OE pump has the correct dimensions and other characteristics of the pump it replaces, while the OEM water pump is just a water pump made by the same company that made the OE pump but the OEM pump may not be identical to the OE water pump. There could be some dimensional differences that makes the OEM water pump different from the OE water pump and in this context this means the impeller blade contact -- if this is where the "ringing" you write about comes from -- because the OEM water pump does not fit the engine correctly.

Sincerely,

MarcW.