I think the UOA test is a great idea.

I drained my oil today and cut open the oil filter and inspected it, found a very small (3/32 " ) irregularly shaped piece of chromium looking metal . When the filter dried more, I checked again and there were about 15 or more shiny fragments on the paper, none were big enough to grab but were definately tiny metallic fragments embedded in the paper. They were smaller than tiny grains of sand, but when the sun hit them they shined like chrome. I have a 2001 , 3.2 L, with 30,000 miles (I know I know I don't get to drive it enough) . I still have the old oil and I am thinking about running it through a paper coffee filter to inspect further. Is that even necessary, or is this a definite sign of looming IMS failure? Should I just go ahead and do a LN Engineering IMS Upgrade?

Quote
newt
I drained my oil today and cut open the oil filter and inspected it, found a very small (3/32 " ) irregularly shaped piece of chromium looking metal . When the filter dried more, I checked again and there were about 15 or more shiny fragments on the paper, none were big enough to grab but were definately tiny metallic fragments embedded in the paper. They were smaller than tiny grains of sand, but when the sun hit them they shined like chrome. I have a 2001 , 3.2 L, with 30,000 miles (I know I know I don't get to drive it enough) . I still have the old oil and I am thinking about running it through a paper coffee filter to inspect further. Is that even necessary, or is this a definite sign of looming IMS failure? Should I just go ahead and do a LN Engineering IMS Upgrade?

well, there are various courses of action.

But first see if the metal is ferrous. Oh you can check the old oil but unless you are SURE the drain pan was clean clean clean you could be worrying over oil that was drained from your lawnmower last spring.

I suspect based on your description the metal is not ferrous.

I believe the metal is alum. and very thin having been smashed coming through the gear pump teeth.

In this case the metal represents just the normal metal (alum.) trash an engine sheds over time. Even a smal piece gets mashed and broken up and looks like a lot of metal.

Regardless based on the posts on this subject over the years your low miles 01 is I hate to say it but at some risk of an IMSB failure.

You have at least two choices: One is to live with the risk. The odds I can't estimate. You can mitigate this risk some -- but how much I can't say -- by changing the oil more often. A low miles car often sits around unused for long periods of time and the combustion byproducts in the oil -- water and unburned bas and other stuff -- combine into acids which attack everything including if the oil is in contact with it the IMSB seal and if the seal is compromised the bearing internals.

Two is to install the LN IMSB upgrade.

There is some risk with this. I believe -- though I may be wrong -- the upgrade comes with no warranty. But do not rely upon my failure to know for sure. Check for yourself.

The other problem with the LN upgrade is it has a short half life. IIRC 40K miles is its life span. But double check this for yourself too. It is what you know that is not so that hurts you not what you dont' know. So know, for sure so you can make an informed decision.

'course with just 30K miles on an 01 you have another 14+ years of driving ahead of you before you would have to worry about replacing the upgrade even if that 40K mile lifetime is right.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

you could be doing your second oil change. Or you could be doing your 12th based on one per year. Which is it? Is this manufacturing metal or something recent? Ever examined the filter(s) before? What did they show? Is the metal ferrous?

contacting Blackstone labs and request a package of their empty sample containers; then:

1) Try to put as many miles as you can in the next few weeks/months and when you get around 1K miles on your current oil:
--do another oil/change . Take a sample of the oil and send it to Blackstone for evaluation; cut the old filter open and go through it with
a magnet. You'll have a much better idea of what is going on with the oil with a new sample that hasn't been mixed with anything else.

2) Not sure how often you change your oil but if you don't do it annually, I'd start thinking about it. As Marc mentioned, if you don't drive much, the resultant moisture and contaminates can do damage to the internals. Also, when you do drive it, try to make sure you get into the higher RPM ranges--4K-6K--after the car reaches operating temps. I'm not talking about redlining it or staying in these rev ranges, just try to bring the motor into those ranges before shifting.

3) If your oil sample/ cut open filter indicates the presence of a lot of ferrous metals, you could also have a mechanic do a camshaft deviation test to see if there if is an deviation in the cam timing--which could be caused by a failing IMS. Having said that, if I had 986 with an oil sample/filter with high levels of ferrous metals in it, I would cut to the chase and start looking for a mechanic to do the IMS replacement.

First, as most know here I had two engine failures so I am biased that these engines are grenades. When the IMSb goes, it goes. IF the IMSb is going, 1,000 miles will be the death of the engine.

I am so freaked out about this, I would not hesitate to replace the bearing. But of course, it is like buying insurance.... or as I used to joke when I lived in Manhattan and would take the subway to Pelham Parkway in the Bronx and change at Grand Concourse at 3:00 in the morning drunk on my ass.... "Hey, the subway and the Bronx are 100% safe.... I was never mugged!" YMMV.

Bruce--that's a good analogy. I suggested it as a minimalist approach not knowing what has gone on before regarding other indications or what type of oil changes he's done. Since you've been through it twice, I understand why you'd do something more proactive.

I'd think if it was ready to go, a cam deviation test would tell the tale, but that's his call.

I do them routinely on both cars. Those guys can often give a solid assessment of what's going on.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I assume its aluminum. I feel a lot better that it is not steel, so not part of IMS, right? Is it "normal" to find tiny shards of aluminum and some aluminum dust in oil?

To answer other questions above:
I change the oil about every 3500 or 4000 miles, which also happens to be about once per year (unfortunately)... , when I get to drive the car, I drive it pretty vigorously, love to hear that desnorkled intake sound at 5k RPM and above so it has plenty of high RPM time, (I have done 3 DE's and several autocrosses), I check the filter every time and never found anything before, so now what?

Last year when I had my oil changed (it's just about due again - to get ready for hybernation ) my mechanic showed me a few tiny bits (like pin points) when he cut apart my oil filter. He said that was normal wear and tear. (At 5K rpm, each piston and related parts are going up and down 5K times per minute - rather amazing when you think about it.) He said he's seen one where the IMS was going and the filter looked like the stars in the sky on a clear night with shiny bits all over the place.

So if it's just a few tiny pieces, I wouldn't be too concerned. That's what the filter is there for - to catch that stuff. Certainly keep an eye on it in future oil changes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2012 08:01PM by Guenter in Ontario. (view changes)

Quote
newt
I assume its aluminum. I feel a lot better that it is not steel, so not part of IMS, right? Is it "normal" to find tiny shards of aluminum and some aluminum dust in oil?

To answer other questions above:
I change the oil about every 3500 or 4000 miles, which also happens to be about once per year (unfortunately)... , when I get to drive the car, I drive it pretty vigorously, love to hear that desnorkled intake sound at 5k RPM and above so it has plenty of high RPM time, (I have done 3 DE's and several autocrosses), I check the filter every time and never found anything before, so now what?

alum. (in an all alum. engine) once in a while. All it takes is one tiny flake, casting flash, of alum. to come loose and it will go through the oil pump and get mashed thin, thinner than alum. foil maybe. Being this thin the flake will almost certainly break up and look like a lot of metal.

You have to remember there is a huge amount of surface area that is all alum. and all it takes is one small piece.

Or given how you drive your car the oil pump may suck up a piece of alum. from the sump pan bottom and the result is the same. Scary looking metal in the filter that upon closer examination is alum. and is made of very very thin/tiny bits than really have no feel.

While your car is a low miler it gets used/serviced in a fashion that could keep the IMSB monster at bay. No promises of course.

Sincerely

Macster.

No imminent IMS doom (at least I am no longer worried) ....now I can't wait to drive it again.....thanks