What the hell do I know...

I know this has been discussed many times, but it's more relevant when one (me now) is actually making a decision and purchase that will last 4-5 years. My shop recommends Michelin first, then Continental, then Sumatomo tires. I looked at tire rack (I'll buy there) and there is a considerable price difference between Mich P2 (about 1,500), Mich Super Sport(1,100) and Continental Extreme Contact (900). What I found interesting is that based on customer ratings, the Michelin Super Sport was rated higher than their P2. I find that odd given the price difference for the same manufacturer's top and second tires.

So, questions:

If I am going to have the tires for 5 years, then the difference between "best by price", the P2s, cost an additional $100/year. If they are that good compared to say the Cont Extreme Contact, then it might be worth it. Any thought on that?

Does anyone have a sense of how the P2s compare with the Super Sport?

Are there any other strong recommendations from boarders that I should consider?

I used to, but no longer autox or DE. But I do have fun with my car, and that requires decent rubber. I now have Mich P2s on the car. What I don't want to do is buy new tires and then have noticeably less grip and feel in handling. But, given that my "fun" is not nearly at any limit on public roads, this maybe academic. That is, I might still enjoy tires that are a step down in traction or stickiness because it doesn't really make a difference until you get to the limit (which I would only want to do in a safe environment like DE).

Thanks in advance for any advice or comments.

Bob

1999 Arctic Sivler/black/black (sold)
2008s Silver/black/black - so predictable
2011 Outback
8/24/2011 first Grandson

Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?

Except for this last set of tires and the early years I've run Michelin tires on my Boxster.

The Michelin tires came highly recommended by various Porsche dealer types and Porsche owners. My decision was helped by often (every time?) the price difference was just not enough to worry about, a few times down in the $100 difference range, so I chose Michelin tires. Cost was competitive and the tires proved to be quite worthy of their reputation.

They have been in short superb tires.

But for the last set of Boxster tires I ended up going with Pirelli tires because Michelin tires were on back order. I think it had to do with there being a big "changeover" by Michelin to the next generation of tires.

Regardless, the Pirelli tires appear to be just fine, though I know from my experience with them way back when they'll get noisy as they wear/harden up.

If the price difference between the new Michelin tires vs. other similar tires (N rated tires of course) is out of your comfort zone then go with Continental or Bridgestone tires. I've run both brands on my 996 and I can't tell the difference. Both brands of tires performed well and lasted a long time. 23K miles out of the rear tires the last set. Life cut short by a nail in one tire which required both tires be replaced. (Road hazard covered the cost of one tire!.)

Pirelli or Michelin on my Boxster and Conti or Bridgestone on my 996 all gave have given are giving reasonable grip in the wet though of course they're not real good rain tires. But driving too fast for road/traffic conditions is not something I do -- I just slow down -- to avoid the risk of hydroplaning which can occur with even a real good rain tire -- and feel quite secure/comfortable knowing the tires are quite up to anything that may happen. And when the roads dry out and the temps climb the tires of course then do not take a back seat to any other tires.

First, i think Michelin overall makes the best tire out there. Their quality and roundness is second to none. In fact, i doubt any are close, except a few GoodYears. Others, and Marc said, are fine though, and in some categories a bit better.

The PS/2 is their N-spec tire and their traditional Super HP tire. One of its characteristics, and required for N-spec, is somewhat predictable and telegraphed break-away - lots of noise, slip angle, etc.

The Supersport is higher performance than the PS-2 in every objective measure. track people LOVE them as far as street tires go on the s track. But they have more abrupt break-away. The other down-side is that they tend to chunk apart if subjected to autoX style driving on rotten, rough pavement. Little of this is a huge deal on the street. One porsche employee, commented to a buddy at an pro-event that they will never get N-spec for that reason however.

I'd buy 'em if they came in the right size for a 986 (which they dont, or didn't). In fact, i may put them on my Audi S6, but i dont need tires for a while.

The sumitomos get great ratings for a cheap tire. I had HTR+s many years ago and was pleasantly surprised (for a all-season tire). QC is sketchy.

Which bridgestones? They make quite a few. My experience has been universally poor.

Finally, if you want a cheaper, hgih quality tire, try Michelin's cheaper brand - BF Goodrich. Yep, its Michelin. I put them on my S6 (G-force 2s) because they were the only summer UHP tire int he size i needed (245/50-16). I dove them - nice and quiet, good grip. I rain drive them - nice. I took them to VIR and beat the piss out of them - yepper. What's not to like? Oh yea, your friends will laugh at you :-) You laugh last.

To echo Marc though, within a class of truly similar tires, from reputable manufacturers, you are unlikely to have a bad experience for street tires.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I've had Conti's, Bridgstone, and Michielin PS2's on my boxsters. Prefer the PS2. Road experience only, but the feel and confidence has always been good. I found the Conti's got noisy quickly with age. The Bridgstones gripped well, but tended to flat spot easily when cold. Good luck! There's no better feeling than a new pair of shoes!

Current Love: 2008 RS60; 1st Love: 2001 base, triple black

I just had to have emergency tire replacement on the Sunday before Christmas. Tire Kingdom was open, so I went there, and they had PS2s or Pilot Super Sports. I picked the PS2s, but while I was waiting, I did some reading online. Everyone prefers the Super Sports. They are less expensive because they do not have the magical N rating from Porsche, or some star rating from BMW. From what I could gather, it was not that they couldn't get it, it is that they did not feel it was worth it. The N rating is what makes the PS2 more expensive, even though it is not as good of a tire, Apparently, Michelin were going to get an N rating 2 years ago, but that never happened. Perhaps they did not see the point. They had a great selling product on a ton of cars, and jacking up the price due to an N rating cost does not earn them any more money, and might earn them less customers.

I told the guy at Tire Kingdom to put on the Super Sports instead. I had PS2s on my last Boxster, and I can honestly say, the Super Sports are quieter, and ride even better. There is not much in the Porsche world that is less expensive and better. This is one of those things.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Then don't say more.

My PS/2s are very sticky on both dry and wet pavement. Although pricey, I would not switch to anything else unless the replacement tires were just as good and lots less expensive.

Now if Sumitomo sold 19" tires that were as good...

Driving a new-to-me '09S in Aqua Blue Metallic. It does .5 past light speed. I made the Kessel run in less than 12-parsecs.
Motto: If you have your top up, that storm outside had better have a name!
Motto 2: Having the top up on a convertible is an oxymoron. Don't be a (oxy)moron.

When I went for 4 tires on my '01S 17", I knew I wanted Michelin having had experience with them for over 40 years. And having used Pirelli and Yokohama for short times on Boxsters before. I was replacing what were commonly known as "Ribs" which I loved, wore like iron with the right alignment but weren't made any more.

But figuring which Michelin PS2 to order at my local tire store was tough as Michelin's marketing used the same common terminology (PS2) to name tires of the same size with different characteristics. You really have to get down to the part number to figure out which one is the N rated if that matters. It did to me and I was pleased.

When we had a 986 and then a 987, I went through the same decision, with the difference being we had an extra set of wheels and tires for auto-x/DEs.
So, that allowed us to have street tire that was geared for what we thought important while driving on the street:
-Good ride quality
-Quiet at highway speeds
-Decent turn in response that doesn't compromise the handling of the car
-Sufficient dry/wet stick to have fun in turns

From what I could see, there were a couple of choices with different price points:
High priced:
-Michelin--PS2/PSS/and PS A/S (for those inclined)
-BS-RE11
-Pirelli P zero

Mid-Priced
Conti DW
GY Asmetric F1

Lower Priced:
Kumho SPT
Sumo HTRZIII
Hankook evo V12
Dunlop Direzza ZII

From my experience with both cars, if I intended to buy a set just for street driving and I intended to keep the car for at least 3 years, I 'd just resign myself to paying the freight for a set of PS2 or PSS (preferred based on the TR reviews).
I say that because while a a lot of these tires approach what the Michelins delivery at a lesser price, there always seemed to be to be something lacking in the total performance of the tire--QC, tread life. tread noise after a few K miles, flat spotting after sitting, etc.. . The GY seemed to be very close to the PS2 in all aspects but did flat spot; the SPT on another car had a great ride but the sidewalls felt squishy and the tire noise went up after 6k miles. I've had Conti's on other cars and QC was a problem but that may not be an issue on the DW. I know people with the Hankooks and they think they are great for the price.

To my eye, the Michelins deliver the goods with no compromises--everything just seemed to work the way it should. Not sure what size you have but in 18" tires for a 2008, there is a big spread between say the Hankook and the PSS. Having said that, since you intend to keep it for 5 years, the $100/year surcharge for the premium priced tire--to me-- doesn't sound excessive.

1. RE-11s ride rough and noisily
2. Khumo SPTs are fine for normal street driving, but pretty soft and fall apart on the track

(remember!?)

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Hadn't heard that of the RE-11's; Regarding the SPT's, I'm thinking of it just as a street tire; fine for touring, just don't ask it to do too much .

Remember Chris? With the red Cayman? Going really fast?

he's out AX chair (now) and has RE-11s that he uses for everything. Swears at them every long trip, but says they stick well and wear like iron.

Hates the noise/ride

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

My 05 Boxster came with Michelin Pilot Sports 2's and it has had fantastic grip in dry and wet conditions, so I have always replaced them with the same. If I had to scrimp on tires, I would first consider what kind of trash I was paying for on my TV or at some Seattle-based coffee store.

"If I had to scrimp on tires, I would first consider what kind of trash I was paying for on my TV or at some Seattle-based coffee store."

Right on.

price was very good, and of course feel awesome after changing out the near slicks I had on. Not a lot of test time, but so far so good. When I inquired about getting the Hankooks, the shop that did my AOS, and put the tires on, did a, " oh yeah, those are good tires".
They replaced Kumhos which were fine with grip, but didn't seem to last that long, even in the front.

Roll Tide !
Clam

I am on my second set of Hankooks for my '01S. No complaints and love the price.

[www.rainydaymagazine.com]

We have had them since June. Great Summer tires.
The Hankooks were a bit noisy, but with the top down, who cares?
Also, can't beat the price!!!

Switched them out in November for some WinterForce in anticipation for a snowy winter.
Will put them back on in late April/early May.

The next thing to see is how many seasons will they last.

Good info; I have a friend with a 996 turbo that likes these tires--especially the low cost on the rears, which tend to wear very fast on that car.

QC problems on a tire are a bugger; they can make balancing a tire properly very difficult and then you are into negotiating with your dealer on a fix for the particular tire--or set.

I installed the Hankook Evo V12s on my '01 S, a daily driver, in July of last year and have been very pleased. They are excellent for South Florida because I don't need an all season tire but they do channel water out very well when it rains. I just checked the wear bars this past wekeend and was very impressed with how much tread was left on them. The mechanics at my indy shop have also been impressed with the quality of their ride and grip.