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Vibrations .... again  mnchstrcityblues79 - Sunday, 17 February, 2013, at 5:29:59 pm |
Gang:
So, as you may or may not remember, I have been on here "complaining" about vibrations with my Boxster for about a year. Recently I have begun to experience a new type of vibration and the return of a variation of an old vibration.
First: Recently, when I start up the vehicle and first start driving, I feel very noticeable, though not violent, vibrations in the steering wheel. I can also feel the vibrations in the seat, in the brake, clutch and accelerator pedals, and when my heels on just sitting on the floor. This goes on for some minutes but, and I have notice this recently, seem to dissipate as I reach operating temperature (~180). The vibration will return later in the day after the car has sat (~8 hours) but normally not as bad. The mornings have been cold for NC (~35 - 45) as have the evenings (not sure if that matters).
Second: It seems like the 3k vibrations are back, though not nearly as noticeable. Normally with the 3K/engine mount vibrations its a very noticeable vibration in the seat when you are decelerating around 3k. Now I am experiencing an almost constant minimal vibration at 3k (or around 70 mph). If I shift into 4th and the rpms jump, the vibrations "seem" (I say "seem" because at 4k+ rpms, there is more going on back there) to go away. As noted below, the engine mount was replace ~10k ago. The transmission mounts have not been replaced.
Final: At a recent "check-up" the mechanic suggested that the rear sway bar links need replacing, would this be the explanation to all the above?
Thank you so much guys, I really appreciate your expertise.
Pertinent Info:
Daily Driver
2003 Base
~72,000 current miles
@ ~61,000 miles, replaced engine mount
@ ~60,000 miles, replaced all four tires [Continental Extreme Contact DW (Rear); DW XL (Front)]
@ ~57,000 miles, repaired bent right-rear wheel
Regards,
Matthew
PS: As a matter of interest, I finally got my P0430 to go away ..... with a new Cat lol
So, as you may or may not remember, I have been on here "complaining" about vibrations with my Boxster for about a year. Recently I have begun to experience a new type of vibration and the return of a variation of an old vibration.
First: Recently, when I start up the vehicle and first start driving, I feel very noticeable, though not violent, vibrations in the steering wheel. I can also feel the vibrations in the seat, in the brake, clutch and accelerator pedals, and when my heels on just sitting on the floor. This goes on for some minutes but, and I have notice this recently, seem to dissipate as I reach operating temperature (~180). The vibration will return later in the day after the car has sat (~8 hours) but normally not as bad. The mornings have been cold for NC (~35 - 45) as have the evenings (not sure if that matters).
Second: It seems like the 3k vibrations are back, though not nearly as noticeable. Normally with the 3K/engine mount vibrations its a very noticeable vibration in the seat when you are decelerating around 3k. Now I am experiencing an almost constant minimal vibration at 3k (or around 70 mph). If I shift into 4th and the rpms jump, the vibrations "seem" (I say "seem" because at 4k+ rpms, there is more going on back there) to go away. As noted below, the engine mount was replace ~10k ago. The transmission mounts have not been replaced.
Final: At a recent "check-up" the mechanic suggested that the rear sway bar links need replacing, would this be the explanation to all the above?
Thank you so much guys, I really appreciate your expertise.
Pertinent Info:
Daily Driver
2003 Base
~72,000 current miles
@ ~61,000 miles, replaced engine mount
@ ~60,000 miles, replaced all four tires [Continental Extreme Contact DW (Rear); DW XL (Front)]
@ ~57,000 miles, repaired bent right-rear wheel
Regards,
Matthew
PS: As a matter of interest, I finally got my P0430 to go away ..... with a new Cat
lol
Boxsterra - Sunday, 17 February, 2013, at 5:35:42 pm |
Put the car in neutral while the problem is happening. If the problem stops then the problem is related to the engine or drivetrain. If not, it's related to the suspension, wheels, or tires.
Check your tire pressures and make sure that you have had an alignment (you didn't mention that). It's also possible that a tire lost one of its weights or that it is just unbalanced.
Check your tire pressures and make sure that you have had an alignment (you didn't mention that). It's also possible that a tire lost one of its weights or that it is just unbalanced.
| Re: Ideas for diagnosis mnchstrcityblues79 - Sunday, 17 February, 2013, at 5:39:54 pm |
Boxsterra - Sunday, 17 February, 2013, at 9:55:25 pm |
| Re: That was to diagnose both mnchstrcityblues79 - Monday, 18 February, 2013, at 9:15:30 am |
Thanks for the responses everyone!
I did drive it last night and when I was experiencing issue no 1, I shifted into neutral and, as you probably guessed, the problem persisted. So, it seems it is probably the tires; I guess I will have to wait till it warms up to know for sure. I forgot to mention that the tires are classified as "max performance summer" so I suppose I should have expected this
As for the 3k vibrations, I couldn't replicate last night. I will continue to investigate. Once again, thank you guys
I did drive it last night and when I was experiencing issue no 1, I shifted into neutral and, as you probably guessed, the problem persisted. So, it seems it is probably the tires; I guess I will have to wait till it warms up to know for sure. I forgot to mention that the tires are classified as "max performance summer" so I suppose I should have expected this
As for the 3k vibrations, I couldn't replicate last night. I will continue to investigate. Once again, thank you guys
Laz - Monday, 18 February, 2013, at 9:29:44 am |
| X2. They lose abotu 40% of their grip, get very hard, and can stay out of round. grant - Monday, 18 February, 2013, at 7:00:16 pm |
| Re: Vibrations .... again Guenter in Ontario - Sunday, 17 February, 2013, at 6:40:23 pm |
Since the vibration disappears after you've driven the car. I'd say that with temperatures in the 30's and 40's, it could be just the tires flat spotting a bit as say sit at those temperatures. Once they get warmed up, they go back to being rounds and the vibration disappears.
If it were lost weights or a bent wheel, I don't think the vibration would go away on its own.
Tire pressure can make a difference. As the car is driven, tires warm up and tire pressure increases, which could result in less vibration.
If it were lost weights or a bent wheel, I don't think the vibration would go away on its own.
Tire pressure can make a difference. As the car is driven, tires warm up and tire pressure increases, which could result in less vibration.
vibrations at start up that go away: likely tires that are out of round and took a set. Is it cold where you are?
3k vibration that moves around while accel/decel: what else is new? Its there, the motor mounts filter most out. Presume you need one, or a tranny mount (less common).
I have this all the time now, in spades, with my stiffer motor mount. Flip side is on the track i don't play "chase the transmission"
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
3k vibration that moves around while accel/decel: what else is new? Its there, the motor mounts filter most out. Presume you need one, or a tranny mount (less common).
I have this all the time now, in spades, with my stiffer motor mount. Flip side is on the track i don't play "chase the transmission"
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
MikenOH - Sunday, 17 February, 2013, at 9:36:51 pm |
Laz - Sunday, 17 February, 2013, at 10:16:23 pm |
| As most have stated... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Sunday, 17 February, 2013, at 10:52:57 pm |
... the steering wheel and general body vibrations are most likely from flat-spotted tires.
In the summer, tires remain much more pliable and become overcome their flat spots quickly.
With the cold winter temps it takes a lot longer for the tires to come up to temp.
Exactly the same is true for the engine vibration at 3K.
The front engine mount's material becomes rock-solid from the cold and until the engine warms it up it's like having a solid mount.
Happy Porscheing
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
In the summer, tires remain much more pliable and become overcome their flat spots quickly.
With the cold winter temps it takes a lot longer for the tires to come up to temp.
Exactly the same is true for the engine vibration at 3K.
The front engine mount's material becomes rock-solid from the cold and until the engine warms it up it's like having a solid mount.
Happy Porscheing
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| For the first issue I'm in agreement with others.. tires are taking a set... MarcW - Monday, 18 February, 2013, at 1:52:31 pm |
Quote
mnchstrcityblues79
Gang:
So, as you may or may not remember, I have been on here "complaining" about vibrations with my Boxster for about a year. Recently I have begun to experience a new type of vibration and the return of a variation of an old vibration.
First: Recently, when I start up the vehicle and first start driving, I feel very noticeable, though not violent, vibrations in the steering wheel. I can also feel the vibrations in the seat, in the brake, clutch and accelerator pedals, and when my heels on just sitting on the floor. This goes on for some minutes but, and I have notice this recently, seem to dissipate as I reach operating temperature (~180). The vibration will return later in the day after the car has sat (~8 hours) but normally not as bad. The mornings have been cold for NC (~35 - 45) as have the evenings (not sure if that matters).
Second: It seems like the 3k vibrations are back, though not nearly as noticeable. Normally with the 3K/engine mount vibrations its a very noticeable vibration in the seat when you are decelerating around 3k. Now I am experiencing an almost constant minimal vibration at 3k (or around 70 mph). If I shift into 4th and the rpms jump, the vibrations "seem" (I say "seem" because at 4k+ rpms, there is more going on back there) to go away. As noted below, the engine mount was replace ~10k ago. The transmission mounts have not been replaced.
Final: At a recent "check-up" the mechanic suggested that the rear sway bar links need replacing, would this be the explanation to all the above?
Thank you so much guys, I really appreciate your expertise.
Pertinent Info:
Daily Driver
2003 Base
~72,000 current miles
@ ~61,000 miles, replaced engine mount
@ ~60,000 miles, replaced all four tires [Continental Extreme Contact DW (Rear); DW XL (Front)]
@ ~57,000 miles, repaired bent right-rear wheel
Regards,
Matthew
PS: As a matter of interest, I finally got my P0430 to go away ..... with a new Cat
that takes some driving to eliminate. What I have found is mild days yet the tires still get plenty hot followed by a nice cool down will have the next trip starting out with flat spotted tires. Real hot days don't have that much of a cool down and colder days the tires just do not get hot enough.
For the second issue several possible explanations...In no particular order: the new mount has failed prematurely or the other mount has failed. Transmission mounts have to be considered too. The tires have worn enough they have changed their balance. Porsche techs tell me this is common and a rebalance is the only thing that will help. Another possible cause is a wheel lost a weight. Or the repaired wheel is the cause. I do not trust repaired wheels and I note Porsche does not support the straightening or welding of damaged wheels. If this wheel had either or both...
The last: At least one front sway bar link on my Boxster was found to need replacing... check that I recall now the dust boot was shot but the link appeared to be ok yet still I had both replaced. There was no vibration before and I noticed nothing different after the replacement.
If in your car's case *if* the links actually have play/slop they need to be replaced. Whether this accounts for the vibration or not you'll know from how the car feels afterwards.
Laz - Monday, 18 February, 2013, at 6:08:20 pm |
| A tire cool down? Possibly. I'd not bother. While the tires may take a set it doesn't take... MarcW - Monday, 18 February, 2013, at 8:58:04 pm |
Laz - Tuesday, 19 February, 2013, at 9:34:12 am |
| An argument can be for a cool down drive especially... MarcW - Tuesday, 19 February, 2013, at 11:35:23 am |
after leaving the freeway (not to mention the track of course) before turning the engine off for even a short time to refuel. On the road I do this as a matter of habit. The cool down consists of easy driving on surface streets for a minute or two or if the gas station is real close to the freeway just letting the engine idle a minute or two on the station forecourt. In fact the Turbo owners manual calls for a 2 minute idle before turning the engine off to give the turbos time to shed some of the considerable heat they will have after running at freeway speeds even though the turbos may not have been making boost.
But a cool down for tires specifically? No way. I simply do not recognize the tires need a cool down in the hopes of avoiding or even minimizing the real but short lived very mild vibration that can some times be present from hot tires that take a set over a cool night.
'course to each his own and if someone is bothered enough by the vibration to want to do something about it... The trouble is tires can take awhile to cool down while in the case of the engine it can cool some, shed some heat load, running at idle with the car stationary. Tires OTOH will lose heat very slowly sitting still -- plus they need to be used a bit after shedding heat to take out any set they may have developed -- and even moving shed heat slowly.
But a cool down for tires specifically? No way. I simply do not recognize the tires need a cool down in the hopes of avoiding or even minimizing the real but short lived very mild vibration that can some times be present from hot tires that take a set over a cool night.
'course to each his own and if someone is bothered enough by the vibration to want to do something about it... The trouble is tires can take awhile to cool down while in the case of the engine it can cool some, shed some heat load, running at idle with the car stationary. Tires OTOH will lose heat very slowly sitting still -- plus they need to be used a bit after shedding heat to take out any set they may have developed -- and even moving shed heat slowly.
Laz - Tuesday, 19 February, 2013, at 11:56:22 am |
| We've arrived at the perfect juncture for a discussion of wrist watches, and whether/how Roger987 - Tuesday, 19 February, 2013, at 3:13:07 pm |
My thoughts exactly  *NM* Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Tuesday, 19 February, 2013, at 4:03:31 pm |
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| Let's get serious. Guenter in Ontario - Tuesday, 19 February, 2013, at 5:13:44 pm |
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