Re: Ball Joint separator / puller?

Boxsterra and ???? (sorry!) recommended the HF ball joint separator tool to get the control arm Ball joints out of the wheel bearing carrier, and similarly the toe links (rear). On another board, i saw a strong recommendation for this puller instead:

[www.craftsman.com]

Here's the reference:

[www.planet-9.com]

Any comments? Disagreement?

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Do a google search on "ball joint separator tool".

The HF one is a ball joint separator. My experience with them has been mediocre, and the link i provided from Planet-9, explicitly warns against using them on teh 986 rear suspension, and suggest this tool. So i asked again. The puller is quite simple - grab the hub with the jaws and slowly coax the ball joint stud out with the center piece.

My concern with the HF tool - or any one of the type you suggest - is that they often:

a) dont get a good grip on the upper and lower parts, and
b) may still apply a bunch of pressure to the boots (damage)

So, given all that, why would you advise against it?

that's my question....

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Quote
grant
The HF one is a ball joint separator. My experience with them has been mediocre, and the link i provided from Planet-9, explicitly warns against using them on teh 986 rear suspension, and suggest this tool. So i asked again. The puller is quite simple - grab the hub with the jaws and slowly coax the ball joint stud out with the center piece.

My concern with the HF tool - or any one of the type you suggest - is that they often:

a) dont get a good grip on the upper and lower parts, and
b) may still apply a bunch of pressure to the boots (damage)

So, given all that, why would you advise against it?

that's my question....

Grant

for the job.

While I've never done my Boxster's ball joints I've done a few in the past for other cars and I used what I think used to be called a pickle fork. I do not recall every having one of the fancy ball joint spreaders. I watched many a gas station mechanic (showing my age: I remember when every gas station did auto service/repairs and the one on the corner 2 blocks from my house I spent way too much time hanging out watching the two owners work on cars) and a pickle fork -- various sizes to fit the car/truck -- were used. Often the mechanic would loosen the castle nut some -- after removing the cotter pin (really showing my age... sigh) and give it a whack with a hammer and separate the ball joint shaft from the other rod. No need to pry anything apart.

I have a tool like the one you pictured, have a set of them in fact (somewhere) but I used them to pull gears and bearings and such off of shafts. Never used one for any steering work. But maybe the Boxster ball joints are hybrid (fancy word for different) and the standard ball joint separation tools/techniques won't work.

You'll be at the car. If you have the tool you pictured you'll know it will work or it won't real quick. If it does fine. If not then you can dash out and get a tool that will work.

Are mounted "reverse" with the ball joint in the control arm, and a threaded shaft inserted into the hub. Tom remove it you can:

1. hit the shaft with a hammer - bad idea to hammer a precision bearing
2. use a pickle fork - bad idea period, but the real issue is it has a very hgih likelihood of tearing the boots
--> note, since i will likely throw the old parts away maybe i dont care, but id like to buy the best tool anyway
3. Use a ball joint spreader like you suggest ( and did Boxsterra and Tygrve), but that presumes it fits and does not slip on the inner edges
4. Use a puller like i pictured - which, to me, means grab the under-side of the hub (solid) and press down on the shaft that pokes through with the pointy bit (nice and solid since it will fall into the torx recess)

My opinion seems clear - i'm really saying"show me the fallacy" - which there may be.

Here's a pic of the control arm if you don't recall what they look like and how the ball joint is configured:

[thumbs1.ebaystatic.com]

My big concern is that i may not be able to get the puller on the top of the control arm due to the drive shaft... hmmmmmmmmm, maybe that's the hidden flaw for the control arm, but not for the tie rod, uh, track rod.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

or the few times I did any ball joint work it was not for fun. That is it was not to separate them just to be separating them.

The things were badly worn and they were going to be replaced. Any rubber boot damage to the old boots was of no concern. It has been too long ago to be sure of my memory but with the proper pickle fork this offered enough clearance to clear the boot. It wasn't like the boot had to be sacrificed.

However there were I'm sure times -- though I don't recall any now -- the things had to be separated to do other work and the separation operation didn't want to harm/damage the ball joint. The same tools were used. So I would have to believe (without doing it myself to be sure) that with the proper sized tool and some care the ball joint could be separated without damaging the ball joint or the boot so both could be reused.

I've never really bothered to look into this for the Boxster. Since my Boxster has not needed any work in this area the opportunity to learn more has not presented itself. Thank goodness. While I'm always ready to learn I'm not fond of those times my education is added to by having to spend money on one of my cars.

Whenever possible I like to use the right tool for the right job. My info is the Porsche ball joint spreader, or as I think Porsche calls it: ball joint press (special part number 9560) supposedly looks like this tool:

[www.toolsource.com]

The Porsche version is $200 or so I've read.

Harbor Freight is supposed to carry something similar for way less than $200 but I couldn't find anything on the H-F web site.

The only thing I see the puller you pictured being used for in the Bentley manual is wheel bearing removal. And the puller is a 3 fingered one, not a two fingered puller.

The Harbor Freight one looks and costs almost exactly like the one at the toolsource link there. Sub $25. Difference is that the HF tool is black metal.

It works well and simply. You insert the foot carefully around the boot and then get a wrench or socket on the bolt, and tighten until it pops. The boot is safe from damage if you just insert the foot correctly around it. Sometimes it's a little hard to find space to get a socket on the bolt, so a wrench is needed.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I bought both a small and large seperator at Napa when I did the CV boots a couple of years ago. Access was difficult regardless so I think I wound up leaving the nut on the top of the stud and smacking it with a hammer. It eventually came out with no damage but fought me a bit. I think any method that does not pinch the rubber boots is fine if you can get access for the tool. I think even a pickle fork would be OK as long as you were careful.

You probably already know this but if not....they are not supposed to be reused and are pretty pricey. I seem to recall about $30 each but I was in a hurry at the time and had to buy them at the dealer. I put the new ones back on with a 1/2 in breaker bar and long piece of pipe with me jumping on it lightly. They have been on for years with no issues. Good luck.

Back in he old days i re-used them (contrary to instructions) on several VW golfs and sciroccos with no ill effect. They also say not to re-use caliper bolts, (yea, right).

Thanks for both notes, Rob. What did you use to counter-hold the torx end of the ball joint? Boxsterra suggested a stubby from HF, but i fear even that may be questionable (access) on mine. I'd really like to find the bent driver Porsche shows. Even thinking of making (heat bending) one.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

It's been a few years but I think I wound up putting tape on the jaws of a set of needle nose vise grips and put them on the bolt REALLY tight to get the nut started. Once started, almost anything would hold it.

Not exactly sure why on the axle nut but it has arms on top that I assume that when new are set slightly smaller than the diameter of the axle and spread when put on. I have re-used them on older cars as well but decided to follow the instructions on this one. The price surprised me, though. I think Pedro's and Pelican's instructions both said to replace so I obeyed. It takes a LOT of torque to get them off.

I reused the axle nut. I believe I called the pcar dealer and they weren't in stock.

Peter

My problem with the Craftsman tool is, you risk spreading the top of the stud or the hex end when you want to re-set the torque. The Napa tool does not work effectively because it is not designed to work on the euro-cars like the versions from Kukko and Matra. I like Napa, but the quality on that tool is suspect, ie metal too soft and design is off. There is a reason why it costs way less then the nice european versions.
You might check out samstagsales for the factory specified tool for the procedure.
regards

The NAPA ball joint separator is different from the HF one. The HF one fits the Boxster ball joint like a glove. The one trick is that there are two positions for the fulcrum and you have to set it to the bigger one. The NAPA one doesn't even have that option.

Further I cannot see how the Craftsman Gear Puller he says he used could possibly work for this task because there is nowhere for it to grab. The one place that looks possible is blocked by the rotor heat shield.





Here is a good picture of the Harbor Freight one where you can see the difference



for reference, here is his picture

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

FYI you can "borrow" most or all of the tools to remove the ball joints from your local cheapo auto parts store (autozone, advance auto, etc). You usually have to pay the cost of the tool and they refund the amount back to you when you bring it back. My local advance has an equivalent of every tool discussed here, and they're of better quality than the HF stuff.

With that said, when I had to remove some ball joints from an older vehicle, I still had to take the whole assembly to someone who actually had a press in order to get them out. Indiana rust - what a pain.

Are the individual ball joints even available, or do they have to be purchased as part of a whole control arm assembly? Did some quick searching and I couldn't pull up any. Was going to recommend greasable ball joints, but maybe they aren't to be replaced separately.

Unfortunately, the only relevant tool I've been able to find is a pickle fork, which does work but it is pretty much guaranteed to rip the rubber seal. In this situation, that is fine since it is being replaced.