I don't get it about the PDK...

Dear Porsche Enthusiasts,

It has been a long time since I posted on any Porsche Forum site so excuse my interjection of an old but still debatable topic. I originally owned a new Boxster back in 1999 and took it to many BRBS Events and had a blast with it for over 10 years before moving to a 2009 Cayman S which I just sold. I also have a 2011 Cayenne S for long trips and hauling more than two people and I love that SUV for sure. Having been warned many times by Pedro to not step down to a 911, but the temptation was just too much for my mature (older used) brain and I have purchased a 2014 991 Cab S with all of the goodies. Now that have read a lot of horror stories of cylinder sleeve issues, RMS, IMS and other nasty failures, you think about all of the bad things that can happen to your new baby unless you follow the factory recommended break-in guidelines. Now I have been told by more than a few people that the best way to break in a new Porsche is to drive it like you stole it. I do not mean hitting the rev limiter when the engine is totally cold, but after the 1st few hundred miles drive it like a sports car and take it through its paces. To me driving it fairly hard at a very wide range of speeds is a better approach That approach allows the moving parts to seat in well at all power ranges. I have done so with all of my Porsche's and I never had an issue due to that operating mode. If anything, I swear that my Porsches ran better and faster than the same model Porsche that was broken in by the book.

I suspect this topic has been tossed around a few times but with a very expensive vehicle to be delivered in a few more weeks, a sanity check is in order. I have heard that race cars are taken on the track as soon as they were ready to run but I am not sure if that is a fact or not. After all it seems like Porsche provided brand new models to the press people to beat the tar out of them so it would be interesting to see if they were first broken in by the book.

I am not trying to start another war among the board fans as virtually any topic about Porsches tend to have a religious fervor mixed with hot politics. I would love to hear your personal experiences good or bad with hard and fast or by the book break methods.

Len In Naples

to lose if the car does not perform well, does not give long and trouble free service and does so for a long time?

Generally an engine broken fast/hard or whatever produces max power sooner. Whether it produces the same amount of power, or more power, or less power, had it been broken in differently I do not know. But its max power drops off sooner than an engine broken in following the more gentler way.

Now the by the manual does not necessarily mean you can not push the engine, it just cautions against among other things too high rpms. New engines have a lot of internal friction. This creates heat. This heat can overwhelm the thin film of oil and the engine can suffer damage -- google Porsche bore scoring, the new IMSB.

But once warmed up the engine can be worked relatively hard. My favorite break in process is to drive around in stop and go traffic with some moderate boulevard cruising then a hard (but minding the rpms) blast up through some gears on a freeway on ramp up to high way speed. The engine can take some load, as long as the load isn't done at too low rpms, but it is less forgiving with high rpms. Excessively high rpms.

Consider an early oil/filter change, at least at the end of break in which is nominally 2K miles. But really the break in is not complete at the of 2K miles point. Field and lab tests have found break in can take thousands of miles as the engine gradually wears in and the bearing surfaces, primarily the cylinder/ring/piston surfaces, develop their optimum sealing that will serve the engine and you for thousands upon thousands of miles.

Example? My 02 Boxster now with over 268K miles on its original engine. Broken in by the book.

First, congrats on the new car. Hope to see some pictures of it when you get it. (Even though you are down grading to a 911. )

Nope, you're not starting a war, just a large flow of different opinions. You pick the one that you think is best.

I for one prefer following the suggested break-in procedure. I know that new engines are built to much closer tolerances than they used to be. Still, people who've changed the oil after the first few thousand miles, have found metal flakes in the oil filter. It takes some time for the moving parts to wear in against each other. It makes sense to me to take it easy during this time. I follow the recommendation of varying the speed of the engine and try to drive it on secondary roads with towns and curves that allow you to shift and vary engine speeds to get the whole drive train broken in.

Brakes need to be bedded in and new tires usually are a bit slippery from the manufacturing process (brakes and tires need only a few hundred miles to be "broken-in". Again, it's a good idea to avoid hard cornering and braking to accomplish this.

I followed this procedure with my '06. It used about a cup of oil before the first oil change. Since then, it's never used any oil between changes, gives great gas mileage at cruising speeds and runs strong. Granted, at about 65K miles, I feel this engine is only just really broken in. I do enjoy driving it in a spirited manner, specially when I get into the twisties.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2013 09:29AM by Guenter in Ontario. (view changes)

I always break in by-the-book (my personal cars).
The factory developed the procedure so that potential problems would be minimized.
Why question that logic?
Now, if I'm given a brand new GT3RSR and asked to run it at Sebring, do you think I'm breaking it in by the book?
Happy Porscheing,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Adn more knowledge than the factory.

That said, they keep things very simple, aimed at the least coimmon denominator, adn with the idea of "first do no harm".

The essential concept of break-in are:

1. Easy whent he motor is nto fully warmed up. Parts do nto fit properly until they expand, and they do not expandsymetrically
2. slowly increase load and rpm over the break-in pedior
3. both load and RPM have some dangers. Both lead to piston travel, and bearing position, that is further from "centered, with minimal side load"
4. do not maintain a single rpm. Vary it as much as possible


So i begin with revs under 4k, and gradually, over 1000 miles, pick up both rpm and load. Then i drive my cars fairly hard, but neceer un-necessarily hard. After all, harsh inputs mean slow lap times (or the equivenent on the road). I have never had any form of major motor wear or failure. Ever. And i have kept cars as lng as just short of 300k miles (1984 audi 5-cyl).

I frankly do not follow the logic of the "run them at full load nad rpm on a jig and be done with it" approach, unless the goal is to produce a motor with little internal friction (lots of initial wear, sealed by the rings for compression, oh goodie).

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

I appreciate all of the wise advice. I will take the advise and go by the book. It is too darn expensive to screw it up. This one has the PDK so at least it will make sure I will be in the right gear and I will leave it in auto for the break in period.

I will post photos etc. once it arrive end of July

Just in case you might what to see what my downgraded Porsche configuration is:
2014 Model Year 911 Carrera S Cabriolet

P3D Premium Package (for use with Power
Sport Seats)
P3H Bose Audio Package
5V Cabriolet Roof in Red
S2 Rhodium Silver Metallic
NG Carrera Red natural leather interior
603 Porsche Dynamic Light System (PDLS)
636 ParkAssist (front and rear)
176 Sport Exhaust System
250 Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)
640 Sport Chrono Package
658 Power Steering Plus
427 20-inch Carrera Classic wheel
446 Wheel center caps with colored Porsche Crest
022 Instrument Dials in Black
541 Seat ventilation (front)
581 Luggage net in passenger footwell
P06 Power Sport Seats (14-way)
840 SportDesign steering wheel
998 Natural leather interior
24951 Deviating Carpet - Black
Black Floor Matts

That list of options will sure make up for the "down grade".

I think you're gonna love this car despite having the engine in the wrong place.

From one waiter to another,

Happy waiting,

What are you waiting for? Sounds interesting. BTW I will miss the Cayman S - it is a wonderful car.

Len

Options = empty pockets but lots of grins!

Quote
Len In Naples
What are you waiting for? Sounds interesting. BTW I will miss the Cayman S - it is a wonderful car.

Len

Options = empty pockets but lots of grins!

I'm waiting for this one. About 4 weeks to go.

[pedrosboard.com]

But who's counting??? ..... ME

Since I had to reorder my car, it's an extra 12 days.

Time seems to be going sooooooo slow
Joanne

Quote
Joanne in OC
But who's counting??? ..... ME

Since I had to reorder my car, it's an extra 12 days.

Time seems to be going sooooooo slow
Joanne

For me, time seems to be rushing by, but then I've got a car that I love driving and wish I could keep it along with the new one. At least, I'll know that I have a Boxster with manual that I should be able to drive for a long time down the road.

In about 4 weeks, if you're really getting antsy about not having a Boxster, it's only a short 2.5K miles for you to come up for a drive in mine.

Hope time speeds up for you.

Quote
Guenter in Ontario
That list of options will sure make up for the "down grade".

I think you're gonna love this car despite having the engine in the wrong place.

From one waiter to another,

Happy waiting,

Au contraire...

You should only be so lucky as to have Len's 'downgrade'; he is most courageous to order the as yet unseen, but sure to be fabulous Rhodium Silver; and there ain't no such thing as a 'happy' waiter.

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

I am waiting for Heaven on Earth = a new Porsche but I am also waiting for the Heaven in Heaven but not in a big hurry to get there. Anyhow Guenter's new Boxster is well worth the wait. If I had the money I would have one of each model. I would have kept the Cayman S if I had a spare garage.

For Guenter I highly recommend the PCA Org Web site and Panorama to sell you other car. It is free and it has worked well for me as the people who call know Porsche's and know what they want.

Now the PDK is not a manual and is a different experience but even with a short shifter it was a chore on long road trips through big towns and traffic jams. The bigger issue is that I always drive on trips and the wife does not know how to drive a stick so what happens if we are in the middle of nowhere and I get sick or pass out or have a heart attack or whatever. no I am not a fatalist but at my age you cannot ignore the risks. I am sure I will have some regrets with the PDK choice but if that happens I will get a used Boxster with a stick for a track car.

The PDK makes the car FASTER. You want a track car -- to go as fast as you can... But you want a stick???? Forget it. If you want to feel good while driving, and feel back in touch with life in the past, and proud of your left foot, and proud of your ability to do what mere mortals can not, then stick with the stick. If you just want to go as frigging fast as you can in a car, get the equipment that will get you there.

I have a stick.

Took delivery at the Factory - they said once the car was warmed up not to worry and I didn't.

But you should do whatever you're comfortable with.

Enjoy,

Ed

Ed from Long Island (Tampa)
05S Cobalt/Blue/Blue

.. that is not one of them that is in the running for correct. Proves it takes little knowledge to work at the factory.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

based on my exposure to various cars at various dealers it seems the biggest problem is that the cars are not being driven hard enough.

There have been more than a few times a vehicle was in and the techs when I asked why/what was up told me the owner just wasn't driving the car hard enough. This is not to say that the owner needed to go out and thrash the car like he stole it but to at least use a bit more throttle, rpms. In one case the owner got the friendly lecture to drive the car harder and then the SM and I watched as the owner drove away and shifted up into 4th gear in just a few car lengths from the where the car was parked. The SM turned at me at the same time I looked at him. To give you an idea I cover that same drive from the street to the service entrance or leave the parking lot and make my way to the street in 1st gear. I do not sing the engine up to red line either, but the rpms certainly get higher than if I up shifted the gearbox to 4th and drove that route.

Regardless what the dealer, anyone at the dealer says, even what the factory techs say, I'm breaking in my cars by the book. If something goes wrong I can point to the fact I was following the guidelines given in the owners manual.

That is I think preferable to saying well, dealer so and so, salesman so and so, SM or SA or tech or factory assembler said so and so and I did so and so and now the engine's sick. And what I would be afraid to hear as a reply is "So?"

when you leave the dealer's parking lot, are you sideways?

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

but no. Heck no.