Re: Does Porsche race the DFI engine? DFI/IMS-less reliability?

If so raced, with what internal mods if any? In other words, how close is it to the one we buy?

Reason for my question has to do with questioning the newer DFI, IMS-less engine's reliability. When my first engine blew in my 2000 Boxster S, I was sitting in the Atlanta dealer Jim Ellis's service lounge where they replaced my engine, and saw a framed poster on the wall. The poster read something like: "All parts purchased here were raced" or something like that. The implication was clear in that the parts in your car were tough enough to withstand the rigors of racing. Of course I remember this incredibly well given that my engine blew while parking in a CVS and the next day, I found myself staring at this poster. (Does anyone in Atlanta know if it is still there?)

We all know that Porsche designed the M96 engine to lower costs and save the failing company. They also cancelled their racing programs at the same time. OK, they made a business decision and it worked fabulously. So now what about the new engine design? When I purchased my 2009 C2S in January or this year, it was the first year of the new IMS-less DFI engine and I took a chance on version 1.0. The research I did said the engine was a good, solid design although the indys said that despite the good chatter, they were all still under warranty when I was looking, so the truth may not have been so clear.

So, what is the "knowledgeable" opinion on this new engine and are they racing it?

Peace
Bruce in Philly (a little paranoid today)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2013 09:51AM by Laz. (view changes)

Quote
Bruce In Philly (2000 S Boxster, now '09 C2S)
We all know that Porsche designed the M96 engine to lower costs and save the failing company. They also cancelled their racing programs at the same time. OK, they made a business decision and it worked fabulously.
Bruce in Philly (a little paranoid today)

Not completely accurate.
Porsche was in financial trouble in the mid 90s so they needed a hail Mary, so to speak.
They needed to sell more units and make more money per unit. That, and adopting the Japanese (Toyota) method of automated assembly would reduce costs.
With the air-cooled engine there was not much they could do. They had extracted as much as they could from those engines but there comes a point where they needed to be cooled better in order to make more power.
The competition was all water-cooled and they made the change because of that.

They cancelled the Factory Racing Team in order to recoup, but Porsche never stopped racing and supporting racing teams.
Now that they're on firm footing again, Porsche is returning to LeMans next year.

The new GT3 Cup Type 991 has DFI, redlines at 8,500 RPM and makes 460HP/325 lb.-ft. from a normally aspirated, 3.8L flat-6 engine and is raced all over the world every weekend.

Happy Porscheing,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 314,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

"Now that they're on firm footing again, Porsche is returning to LeMans next year."

And maybe the quality of engineering in their engines will improve, too.
This is the first and only car I've ever owned where I felt either (a) afraid that it might blow, or (b) that major modifications would be necessary to prevent that. Then there was my 986 Boxster with the seats that weren't tall enough to prevent my head from hitting the roll bar in an accident. Then there is the little quirk where you can't make a sharp turn while backing in winter without causing a BANG! like a gunshot. Then I read on P-9 that the water pumps are crappy. It's a beautiful car and enjoyable to drive, and I have so many mods in it now that I'm in it for good, but just don't talk to me about how great Porsche engineering is. For street use, there are many better choices. Yeah, it outhandles and outaccelerates most anything on the street ... but I don't remember the last time I did any street racing so what use is that to me? Then, when you hear about the oiling problems with the new ones in track use, it makes me think that there are also better choices for track use. After 4 years of ownership, I have come to think that about 98% of Porsche ownership is just hype from car magazines who don't have to live with the cars more than a short while.

And I'm sure there are dozens if not hundreds of owners who have driven hundreds of thousands of miles with no problems whatsoever. Good for you. Doesn't change the statistics. A lot of them do fail and have stupid problems that competent engineers (e.g. Honda) would have engineered out before selling the first car instead of making you their guinea pig. Ummm ... let's see if this IMS works. No? Well, let's try this one. Not yet? Well, let's try another version. Drat. Oh forget it, just get rid of the darned thing but pretend that we never had a problem with it.

Which is the old, dry-sump block adapter to water cooling used in he turbos and GT3s. None of those factory race cars use the M96 or M97 motors.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

"it does not exist" Cayman race car. The one that doesn't exist.

I expect we could easily find out what will be in the 991 chassis....

Grant

( i see the Pedro has weighed in and the 991 Cup is a new whatever-the-code is motor)

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2013 03:08PM by grant. (view changes)

Porsche still advises against slicks on the newer cars, which should answer your question.

Steve

Quote
SteveJ (2010 987 base, manual trans)
Porsche still advises against slicks on the newer cars, which should answer your question.

Steve

issue than anything else. With a PDK the shifting is done under computer control and the shift program is tailored to the emissions/economy test "drive cycles". The result is when the car is tested tested for certification the emissions are as low as they can be and the fuel economy is as high as it can be.

I actually did not know Porsche even acknowledged racing slicks...

The grapevine certainly notes that cars with slicks may suffer oiling failures on #6 (mostly Cayman S)

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

It's actually in the owner's manual, along with other warnings. I do have some concern about your project car, but the danger depends on the track. If you don't have a long, extended high g turn, you're probably OK.

You're not exactly one to run out on a flimsy theory...

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

that because Porsche doesn't support slicks on cars equipped with DFI engines, that the DFI engines are therefore fragile, even no good?

What a load of I don't know what.

To me the lack of slick support is more a sign of concern Porsche has for the wheel bearings.

Seriously, and frankly, I'm glad Porsche doesn't take the time and spend the money to test slicks. Keeps the cost of an already expensive -- but superior -- car down. And it doesn't put me off the DFI engine one iota.

Same with all the goofy discount tires that are available. (Came across an article somewhere not too long ago and when EU brings in the stricter requirements on tires -- something to do with the quality of the rubber used in tire construction -- all those low cost cheap tires are going away.)

So, I currently have two Porsches with the older style engines with a total of 380K miles between them and I'm close to buying a new Porsche and I'll probably want one with a no IMS DFI engine so I want the price down and the more the better for me. So pass it on... DFI engines suck. Now if you'll excuse me I'm getting on autotrader to find a car with a DFI engine for sale. Cheap.

You're not having a good day are you?

relax. I'm teasing you.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com