Re: Rumination on cost and engineering detail.....

Ok, I don't know why I am writing this, maybe just to see if anyone experienced this.... admiration for engineering....

I just finished installing some interior parts into my 2009 C2s. I am not the original owner. The car was ordered with a nice smattering of Macassar wood... which I like very much. (The forums call this an old man's style.. well I am 53 so I am in tune with it!) I found a center console and door cubby lids in Macassar that are original Porsche parts on eBay so I snagged them (these are thousands! from Suncoast). If you ever pulled out that center console and removed your door panels to remove those cubby lids.... well let's say there is not enough Ibuprofen in the world to stop my back pains. Anyhoo......

My point: I am awestruck by the minute and detailed engineering that went into these interior parts. Sheeeeesh!!! Not only the number of parts, but the odd curvatures that fit so perfectly with other parts of dissimilar materials. You can see how the engineers were thinking in how something would be installed and removed.... little things like slack in cables or clips that are accessible after you... etc. etc. Even the stupid door panel push-pin retainer posts are multi-piece systems that can be reset (I think each post was 4 pieces)! Yes, reset to be used again - and none broke!

I have full natural leather in my car and am fascinated that Porsche would cover a tiny 4" piece with leather. Even the non-leather parts had a great soft feel to them and the color was matched perfectly.

So, now to the cost part. Yes, this car was stupidly expensive. And, I know Porsche is the most profitable car company on a per unit basis in the world. But.... they at least are giving you some good stuff for your money. It this all "worth it"? I can't answer that except with comment a friend noted to me about 20(?) years ago. He was in sales for a company that supplied parts to the American Big Three. Each of them had a different personality and standards for quality and price. The comment he made about GM stuck with me to this day "If you don't see it, it is not in there." When he told me that, I thought "so what? Why would I want to pay for something I don't experience?". Well...... I can't imagine anyone saying that about Porsche (or Mercedes, or BMW, your brand here). I/we are paying for some extraordinary engineering and thought.

So now, I will go out on a limb and make some wacky speculations.. and why not? On the 'net, I am a mechanic/engineer/philosopher... in real life, I am a dog. When I purchased my first Porsche, a 2000 Boxster S, I was impressed with the car. I took it apart, tweaked stuff, fixed stuff... I got to know it pretty well. I was impressed but not to the level I am with my newer car. Why? Is this because my 2009 is a Carrera and much more expensive? No... I don't believe that for a minute. I won't go into detail, but in my career, I have been in and out of companies and industries for 30 years and I can tell you there is a thing called "culture" and it is way more than the presence or absence of bowling leagues. I believe the detail and engineering in my 2009 is a direct result of culture (as is the GM comment). So why wasn't this in my 2000 Boxster to the extent of my Carrera? Car Price? Again.. no. I believe that Porsche was up against the ropes back then and the Boxster was their Hail Mary pass. They did a good job with car but I think it suffered (when compared to their product of today) because of their financial situation. I blew two engines in that thing. The pieces parts of that Boxster, while impressive compared to say a GM car, are not nearly up to what my 2009 is. I think that Porsche is back, and more than just sales numbers... they are back to the details details details. Culture is another word for leadership but also funds. They have the funds, and kudos to Porsche to allow their engineering culture to put the details back in. Could you say that an American company would do that or maybe pocket the dollars (Ford may be the exception as I am pretty impressed with their stuff).

Care to opine? How about from someone who had an early Boxster and now a newer one?

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Wonder Post... Thanks.

I own a 2006 Boxster S and I have driven and owned many cars in my past and I can only speak about one Porsche that is in my garage. I am very impressed with the robustness (I am sure it is a word) such as braided hoses, the finish of the full leather, the unique sound of the engine, the fit and function of the interior cabin and I haven't seen one part from Korea or China.

Not to mention the way the car handles

I hope to be fortunate enough to own another Porsche so I will have the opportunity to prove your hypothesis.

Time to go to the store for ....something!!!!

MIKELLIG

I can just go on changes from my 06 to the new 14.

I agree that quality of parts have improved. I always thought the switches where nice in my 987, but paint came off the fan and temperature controls on the climate control. They were replaced under warranty. Switches on the 981, definitely feel upscale, they look high quality, with a nice silver line touch and have a soft faint, but definite "click" when activated. Even colour matching. Heated seat button has 3 red lines, vented seat button has 3 blue lines to show level of operation.



I know that you had mentioned the 997 having heavier doors than your Boxster. I'm just wondering if that's just a combination of improvement of the mechanisms and closed interior to give you that solid "thunk" sound. I find the doors in my 981 have a more solid sound than the ones in the 987, despite the fact that Porsche has worked on making the car lighter - including the use of aluminum instead of steel for the door skins.

That's why the Toyota came in to help save Porsche back in the '90s. If I recall correctly, the 911 and the Boxster shared more than 60% of the same parts. Wonder how many parts all of the Porsche models have in common? There are lots of parts to cars these days, and if you can use the same ones over various models, the better it is for the bottom line. To me, a non-engineer, this seems like a huge logistical/organizational/ design headache--hey remember that little do hicky thing we used under the dashes of the 911 and Boxster, I think we could use it in the Panamera and Pepper, too, so if we just move this do-dad back 1/4 inch, the little do hicky thing will work.

Quote
Bruce In Philly (2000 S Boxster, now '09 C2S)
....So, now to the cost part. Yes, this car was stupidly expensive. Care to opine?

Agree almost completely, Bruce, BUT your C2S was only stupidly expensive for the original buyer. You, my friend got a STEAL!

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

The mechanical sophistication, from my perspective, did not change much 986->987 (and 996->997). But with the 9x1, it too lept forward.

I think what you are actually seeing is that back in the late 1990s, Porsche was designing its first clean-sheet, water-cooled, modern assembly, car line(s). They had some learning to do. Now they are on Gen 3. They learned how to do things better,adn they also learned the cost of being cheap in certain areas.

but then too the market's bar has risen. I suspect that if you looked at that GM car - say a 2000 vs 2013 Cadillac, or entry-level Chevy, you might see an even more startling difference.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

The reality is that technology and rationalization within the car industry has changed the game significantly in the last ten to fifteen years. Original Porsches were parts bins cars, sourced what they could from VW, and made what they needed to, in limited numbers (hence the cost). Today's technology allows manufacturers to design quickly, smaller batch items, and put them into a car at a lower price than before. You can get a mould made off a CADD file, circuit boards off a CADD file, custom cutting off a CADD file. Ten years ago, my 03 986 still has parts bins goods in it, because the cost of producing something for a car that they were only making 15,000 to 20,000 units of was prohibitive. Hence why an 03 was more money then than it is today -- my 03 986 MSRP was C$70k, which in today's money is about $86k. I can pick up a nice 981 for about $62k -- yes there's currency issues in there, but still, a 981 is considerably cheaper today than it was ten years ago.

And, my 986 has a wiper and turn stalks from what feels like a 79 VW Golf, a climate control unit from a '97 Audi, and a bunch of other VW/Audi parts (that when you pick it up from a dealer costs 2x more than what it would cost at a VW/Audi dealer).