Re: 'course, in the case of hybrids and electrics, the taxpayer foots some of the cost ...

Lee Iacocca
"People want economy and they will pay any price to get it."

Ok, talk among yourselves.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

of the "economy" car on behalf of the owner.

Marc

Of course to feed the gas guzzlers, what was the cost of our geopolitical involvement over the last few dozen years spread over each gallon they used?

BTW, I don't know of any taxpayer subsidy I received or will receive to buy a Prius hybrid in 2012. I do pay less gas-tax per mile (BTW, I fully support a road fund tax based partially on miles driven).

Bruce

I ran the spreadsheet of how much I'd save over how many years and miles and figured when spending extra on a hybrid would pay off. Wasn't terribly impressive just on the basis of gas costs alone but the depreciation was trivial compared to some cars I've owned (Porsche content) and I could afford the ~$5k more up front outlay. Had a fun to drive component in the displays. The convenience of longer fueling intervals and shorter fueling stops is a nice feature. Regular gas prices are too. 41.6MPG average over 11k miles, best tank was 50+ (for a station wagon!). Zero other costs so far. Expected brake life over 100k or more. Battery replacement cost less than IMSB replacement cost and expected around 200k or more. No sacrifice in utility and I don't drive it any special way. Would I have bought a Luxury hybrid? No. Just as I didn't buy my second and third Porsche's new or on time. Just as I didn't pay the first one off the boat premium.

PS, even the Toyota has a drive line component that you ought to change out at around 75k according to the forums. Kinda reminds me of some other cars I've owned.

I know for a fact the Volt qualifies for a $700 credit, as do Teslas.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Mike,

Interesting.... this is the first time I read that non-traditional engined cars are "worth it".

However, if your timing is good, a gas guzzler can be quite cost effective. Huh? My buddy purchased a loaded Jeep with some super-equipped engine a few years ago, used, when gas prices were soaring. Dopes were dumping these things left and right. I forget the numbers, but I remember my jaw hitting the floor when he told me what he paid for it. This is kinda the flip of Iacocca's comment.

How did you predict an average gas price? The myth of gas pricing is that it can go higher without end and therefore drives the market for these hybrids. Actually, the markets have a real cap on high price because as prices at the pump rise, it becomes cost effective to pump and sell gas from higher cost wells or locations. This floods the world with oil and the price stabilizes and then falls. The world has way more oil to exploit than the press or the ignorant think. It is all over the darned place, the issue being the cost to get it to market. Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Mexico are some of the biggest producers not because they have it and other don't, but because it is the cheapest to get to market. But, as observed, prices rise faster than they fall but always will drift back to some "good" price as spikes are always temporary due to the massive amounts still around and obtainable. In other words, when price spikes, I don't worry, I just watch others come on line, and then the price falls.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

.. as tow vehicles

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

IIRC I ran the spreadsheet using prices from $3.20 to $4.20 and varying mileages and years. Just to get an idea of worst and best case. I've seen gas at $2.99 and $4.49 since I bought the car. In truth, I just wanted something different and the numbers were a rationalization, not the real reason. (I keep a car 10 years if it is a good one or my needs don't radically change.)

Weren't the federal rebates only available on hybrids with some restriction on the first so many thousand per model in most cases. And states handled things differently too. I received nothing.

Volts may have not sold enough to disqualify or because they are plug in they may be treated differently. I looked at a Volt. No rear trunk room. 6' Xmas tree...no way. Wouldn't even fit my loot from an every two months trip to Costco.

Prius long since has sold enough. Son has the hatchback, 100 miles a day for several years, no issues. I waited till there was a station wagon version, compared to Ford C-max and for cargo room (and isn't that why you buy a wagon) the Prius won. Ford would have won on ride and styling but that wasn't as important. Then Ford got caught lying about their mileage. (Go to fuelly.com to see how real world owners are reporting their MPG.)

Mike,

When you do your calculations of your Prius' payback period, I respectfully suggest that you consider that it will sell for considerably more than the equivalent non-hybrid when the time comes for you to sell it.

So that extra ~$5k you spent for it should be reduced by the $2-3k extra you'll receive when you sell it.

I bought a 2007 Prius early in 2012 and I'm pretty sure I could sell it for close to what I paid.

Likewise, my 2007 987 P-car, bought in 2010, is also holding its value very nicely. About 5% depreciation per year I reckon.

Jack

require and in upping the electrical supply needs (and the infrastructure for all those resident and work and shopping recharging stations) to support a larger population of hybrids you're not thinking.

It was in The Not The New York Times or Off The Wall Street Journal parody, and there seems to be no online image of it at all.
"No heater; no air conditioning. If you're cold, put on a coat. If you're warm, take it off."