Re: IMS???

HI all,

The IMS ghost might just pay me a visit. The car was running fine, went out a drive about 50 miles, pull into gas station, fill it up, pull out then I heard a noise (sound like air escaping from a flat tire), all lights are on, the engine just stop. Can't crank it afterward. Put on an OBDII reader and it shows no code. IMS?? There is no drop of oil or anything, open up the timing belt and it is there.

Any suggestion? The car is 99 36K miles.

Thanks,
Tony

Explain the symptoms a bit better. I don't follow the "escaping air" (which would have nothing to do with an IMS.

You started the car, began driving and then heard... this noise..? When accelerating? Did it occur before or after it stopped running....

As to the timing belt being there, that's strange Boxsters don't have timing belts.

When you say you cannot crank it - what happens when you turn the key. be specific. Does the solenoid engage? Does the starter attempt to turn?
Does the motor turn -- at all?

So maybe it would be better to explain specifics more than conclusions.....

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

HI Grant,

Sorry for not being clear, I was driving the car after about 50 miles, pulled in the gas station next to my house, with the engine on, filled her up and pulled out, As soon as I make a left turn back to my house from the station, I accelerated and then I hear a whooping sound like air came out from a flat tire, I felt the engine speed up very high and then dropped, all lights came on afterward, engine stopped. My wife said she hear it from her side too.

Pulled over to the side, try to turn it on multiple times, the engine did not turn over at all.

Pushed the car home ( I was about 200 feet from home), opened her up, looked at the belt (front of engine, how do you call that one again??) , it is there, looked underneath not a drop of oil or coolant. The car just wouldn't start. After I opened up the front to look at the belt and tried to start, I can see it engage (one of the pulley attempt to turn) but just not turning over. Seems like something stuck in there.

Put on my cheapo OBDII reader, show no code :-(

I was just about put her to sleep for the winter, and this was the last ride for the year, and then do the IMS retrofit next spring but my luck seems to be run out :-(

Any suggestion, where to check, etc, very appreciated..


Thanks,
Tony

diagnosis.

The problem may not be a severe one but you'll almost certainly not be able to fix it with a pair of pliers and some tape.

How much do you think I can sell it as roller?

The car is in excellent condition until yesterday :-)))

Thanks,
Tony

... from what you describe it doesn't sound like an IMS failure, but more like an AOS failure.
Have it towed to the shop where they can diagnose for you, then make a decision whether to fix or sell.
Best of luck.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Thanks Pedro!

I will take your advice and have a shop look at it.

Tony

HI Pedro,

If it is AOS, should the car has a lot of smoke coming out? Which I did not see at all. It just stopped, ka-put and die :-(

Thanks,
Tony

Quote
boxster99
HI Pedro,

If it is AOS, should the car has a lot of smoke coming out? Which I did not see at all. It just stopped, ka-put and die :-(

Thanks,
Tony

should the AOS permit too much oil vapor or oil droplets or even oil to be routed to the intake and where the oil could result in one or more cylinders experiencing hydraulic lock. In this case the engine would likely stop in an instant. Half an instant. I've been told that at least one driver continued to drive his Boxster after an AOS was diagnosed and the engine suffered hydraulic lock up. I do not know the symptoms prior to the lock up. I would think the engine would be smoking like a chimney.

that's LOTS of oil. You would have constant smoking befoe that, beginning with smoking under extremee Gs (rarely experienced by most), then smoking at start-up, and then just somoking. I didnt read anythign about that.

I would put AoS very low on my list of likely suspects. But i'd round 'em all up....

I'm still puzzled by the air noise....

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

... if the car was low on coolant, it could have overheated by idling while it was being filled.
If it was very low on coolant the temp gauge would not have risen since it can only measure liquid temp, not air temp.
The air-rushing-out sound could have been the coolant cap letting off some excess pressure from the coolant remnants.
It could have seized which would explain all of the idiot lights and no oil or coolant leaks.
I have seen enough coolant level float sensors frozen at the full level, so no low coolant warning would have been lit.
This theory explains all of the OP's symptoms.
Not happy news either.

Initially I mentioned the AOS based on the rushing air sound and engine locking (hydro locking), but there would have been some smoke which the OP denies seeing.

Happy Porscheing.
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Well, here's hoping it wasn't/isn't catastrophic.

Tony, please let us know what your service rep finds.

The fact that the motor won't turn concerns me. Something is mechanically restraining it ( assumign its not simply a dead battery... whcih i'll ignore for now).

I'm still uncertain about he "air noise". I see Pedro mentioned the AoS, but that does nto explain why the motor won't turn.

I agree that the best (liekyl only) thing to do is get it towed to a really good shop and start slowly.

Somethign sounds very un-IMS-ish about this. So maybe that's good news.

In any event, best of luck. Get back as you have more facts. I'm travelling nonstop for the next 1.5 weeks (just got into the hotel here in San Jose) so i'm of limited use, or, even more limited use than usual.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I talked to one of the shop near my house (EuroTech Advanced Automotive speciallized in Porsche) and Bill told me it does not look good if the engine does not turn. He won't be able to look at it until next week :-(

May be I should open up the oil filter and see if any metal in there?

Thanks,
Tony

Have it flat-bedded to your trusted mechanic. Do NOT try to start it.

If the engine won't turn over ( I don't mean, 'no combustion', I mean the starter won't rotate the crankshaft), you've likely got a big problem, assuming your battery and starter are working.

Well finally , my mechanic called me today and he said the engine just die the big way, it is not worth saving :-( Not exact sure what yet, will talk to him tomorrow.

What are my options?

Remanu. engine,
Used engine
sell as roller ?

How much for each option, please advice :-)
I am thinking just sell it and done with Porsche :-(

Thanks,
Tony

Quote
boxster99
Well finally , my mechanic called me today and he said the engine just die the big way, it is not worth saving :-( Not exact sure what yet, will talk to him tomorrow.

What are my options?

Remanu. engine,
Used engine
sell as roller ?

How much for each option, please advice :-)
I am thinking just sell it and done with Porsche :-(

Thanks,
Tony

A Porsche replacement engine is one way to go. But you have to know it is expensive way to go. I priced a replacement engine from Porsche for my 02 Boxster base model with the 2.7l engine and it was around $16K with a suitable core. Without add $10K. (Prices may have changed, as my info is months old.) Now recently within the last month or so there were one or two large dealers that sell a lot of parts online that were offering Porsche engines at a discount but I suspect those are all gone. Still to have all the info you need to make the right decision you need to get a hard quote and do a thorough search for any remanufactured engine that a dealer might have in stock.

Your next option is an engine from a Porsche salvage yard. You can replace like for like or put in an engine from a similar model year 996. Many owners have gone this way and appear to be happy with the outcome. For cost you would have to find a shop that does this kind of a swap and get a quote.

If you sell the car as a roller you will probably clear under $5K and my info -- over a year out of date so take it with grain of salt -- probably much less than that. Call it $3500. Look in Excellence and Panorama magazines for ads by Porsche salvage businesses and give them a call for an offer for your car as a roller. While you have someone on the line get a quote on a salvage engine, shipping and any warranty (exchange if the engine turns out to be locked up or junk from the git go).

Gather info and do not rush a decision.

... cost adjusted, is a salvage yard motor. The key is getting a good one from a reputable place. I would call or ebay both Nationwide 978-534-0477 outside Boston and specialized German in CA. Both seemed very reputable. In the end i got one with 27k from Nationwide after listening to a Youtube video of it running. I immediately did as much service as could be done from the outside, including an IMS bearing (you might choose to do the DOF instead). Motor mount, chain tensioners, AoS, plugs, tubes, coilpacks, .......and the tranny too - clutch kit, gear oil, etc. It gets costly, but you have a largely new car.

Some places, maybe specialized German and the one in LA, will sell you rebuilt motors. I have no idea on the quality. There are one or two outfits that sell rebuilt motors cheaply on ebay - from the forums and BBB reports run, don't walk, away from thee scam artists. Better a solid, low miles, used motor made by porsche than a "new" POS.

Installation can be costly, including all the work you really should do while its apart.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Quote
boxster99
What are my options?

Remanu. engine,
Used engine
sell as a roller .
Tony

I can sell you a fully remanufactured 2.5L with a 2 year warranty for $12,000.
These are the engines we put into our Spec Boxster Rececars.
If you ship me the car I'll charge you $15,000 out-the-door.

A used engine on eBay or similar is going to be around $6,000 but you don't know what you're getting.
No warranty.
Add $3000 to remove the old engine and install the new one.

If you sell it as a roller you may get $4,000.

So...
If you want to get out of Porsche take the hit and sell as a a roller.
If you want to stay in a Porsche, sell as a roller and buy another used one for about $10,000 (low miles). Your cost would be around $6000.
If you want to keep that car, put a used engine from eBay. Your cost about $9,000. No warranty.
If you want to keep your car and have no more worries put the remanufactured engine with the warranty. Your cost $15,000.

I think that about covers it all.
Good luck.
Happy Porscheing
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Pedro,

You didn't mention if the remanufactured engine that you would provide would have a new IMS bearing and DOF. If so, that would be really no worries and would substantially add to the resale value of the car.

... include:
Full tear-down, and inspection of every component.
Thorough cleaning with emphasis in all of the oil and coolant channels.
Any part that is replaced is a new OEM part unless the customer requests an aftermarket upgrade.
New piston rings, crankshaft bearings and connecting rod bearings are replaced. New chain guides are installed.
The cylinder heads are sent to our machine shop to have them checked for cracks, cleaned thoroughly, machined (rectified) and valves re-seated.
All seals are new, including the Rear Main Seal (RMS).
The heads are then re-installed after the long block assembly has been finished.
A new OEM steel IMS bearing is installed together with the Direct Oil Feed (DOF) System.
The completed engine is fully tested to ensure that it meets all of the OEM specs.

Happy Porsche'ing
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Thanks Pedro,

I will consider that option.
Right now look like I am going to sell it. Any one on the forum wants it? $3K take it?

I also have a hardtop that match, that would be $1K.

I am sad to see my baby go :-((((((

Thanks,
Tony

If there's any interest you'll be told how the process works.

There are other similar businesses. If you want check out the ads in say Panorama or Excellence for salvage businesses closer to you. However, I initiated contact with OK Foreign from here in Livermore and the distance didn't phase the person I spoke too at all. OK Foreign buys car country wide and can arrange to have your car picked up and you paid. I am not clear on the details but IIRC half of the agreed upon purchase price gets transferred to your checking account when you agree to sell the car and the other half comes by way of check from the driver who picks up the car or by a funds transfer when the driver calls in he has the car and the car's title in his possession.

Some wrecking yards that several years ago advertised Porsche as a specialty. If they are still in business, that is a good sign they might be safe to deal with.

http://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/listsofsources

Flat6 also has been known to buy cars. I'd talk to a few just to get some competitive prices.

Perfect time to sell the hardtop.

Tragic.

La Porsche dismsntlers

German specialized recycling

Nationwide (mass)

I bought my motor from nationwide. All seemed above the average

grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com