Re: Direct Oil Feed Questions

Hello,

I've had my 2008 Cayman S now for a bit over 2 years and during that time it has been a great car (except for the water pump and AOS failure). I do oil changes every 5k miles, drive it daily, and make sure to warm it up a bit before revving it out, particularly for short trips. Anyhow, I love my car, but admittedly I didn't do enough digging prior to my purchase to find out about potential IMS bearing issues. So, my feeling is that it would be great to keep the car, but not if I have to keep worrying about that darn IMS bearing now that my CPO warranty is over. So I am thinking I either sell my car which now has 88k miles on it or do the DOF. So my questions on the DOF are as follows:
- Has anyone heard of failures of the original OEM IMS bearing post-DOF installation?
- Is 0W40 oil sufficient to lubricate the bearing, or is it recommended to use a different weight?
- Has anyone heard of oiling problems due to the DOF? Truthfully, I would be a little worried about taking away some oil from part of the engine that needs it. But maybe it's not actually enough to matter?
- How much does the DOF installation typically cost?
- Anyone know of good shops in the Los Angeles area to perform this work?

Your help would be much appreciated.

Hopefully, I can get Pedro to chime in. His explanations and investigations into IMS are awesome!!

Quote
Jasper987S
Hello,

I've had my 2008 Cayman S now for a bit over 2 years and during that time it has been a great car (except for the water pump and AOS failure). I do oil changes every 5k miles, drive it daily, and make sure to warm it up a bit before revving it out, particularly for short trips. Anyhow, I love my car, but admittedly I didn't do enough digging prior to my purchase to find out about potential IMS bearing issues. So, my feeling is that it would be great to keep the car, but not if I have to keep worrying about that darn IMS bearing now that my CPO warranty is over. So I am thinking I either sell my car which now has 88k miles on it or do the DOF. So my questions on the DOF are as follows:
- Has anyone heard of failures of the original OEM IMS bearing post-DOF installation?
- Is 0W40 oil sufficient to lubricate the bearing, or is it recommended to use a different weight?
- Has anyone heard of oiling problems due to the DOF? Truthfully, I would be a little worried about taking away some oil from part of the engine that needs it. But maybe it's not actually enough to matter?
- How much does the DOF installation typically cost?
- Anyone know of good shops in the Los Angeles area to perform this work?

Your help would be much appreciated.

Hopefully, I can get Pedro to chime in. His explanations and investigations into IMS are awesome!!

The 2008 engine is the last year of that engine series and is probably the best example. I felt so confident in this belief that I bought a new 2008 Cayman S in early 2009 even though I knew all about the IMSB issue. Might mention that the fact my 2002 Boxster had racked up the big miles (I forget what mileage the Boxster had in early 2009 but it has over 290K miles on its original engine/IMSB currently) with no IMSB issues helped bolster my belief that with reasonable "preventative" care and treatment the engine would be just fine. "Preventative" care in this case just means I would adhere to the same 5K mile oil/filter service and other reasonable engine treatment I had given to my Boxster's engine over the years.

0W-40 oil is sufficient to lubricate the engine. Many owners run this oil and their car engines do just fine. (Besides my Boxster with 290K miles, my 996 Turbo with 132K miles, I know of a 996 Turbo with over 400K miles that has managed these big miles running 0w-40. At over 400K miles the owner pulled the engine to address some leaks (not because of any engine problems) and while the engine was out decided to address what he suspected would be some worn out parts. The owner reported upon engine tear down he found measurable wear.

Regarding 0w-40 oil: Given where you live and the climate there I could easily recommend you consider using Mobil 1 5w-50 oil. This is an approved oil. Even up here in northern CA the weather is mild enough in the winter (Winter? What winter? It was 85F yesterday and the A/C was on!) that a year or two back I switched to using this oil in both my Boxster and Turbo engines year 'round rather than just during the summer months. Up until this point both had been using 0w-40 oil with no problems.

In the case of your car's engine, I have to note that in 88K miles of use with 0w-40 oil if that oil was insufficient even a bit I think you'd know it by now. So you could just stick with 0w-40 if you wanted to.

For the question about will this oil, any oil, be sufficient to lubricate the bearing? Only time will tell.

Can't help you with the cost of installing the DOF. I've not bothered to price this job nor any job regarding IMSB upgrades, etc.

Thanks for the info! Those are some pretty big miles! And +1 on the California "winter". 91F yesterday in my neck of the woods.

So besides the 5k oil change intervals, what other reasonable engine treatment do you adhere to? With those kinds of miles, you must be doing a few things right.

BTW, my engine seems to be in good shape so far as I can tell. It consumes very little oil and is pretty quiet (not including the exhaust) when it's idling. Also, upon inspecting the oil and filter during changes, they both always seem to be in good shape. Yeah, hopefully I'm not coming across as paranoid. Apologies if I am.

Quote
Jasper987S
Thanks for the info! Those are some pretty big miles! And +1 on the California "winter". 91F yesterday in my neck of the woods.

So besides the 5k oil change intervals, what other reasonable engine treatment do you adhere to? With those kinds of miles, you must be doing a few things right.

BTW, my engine seems to be in good shape so far as I can tell. It consumes very little oil and is pretty quiet (not including the exhaust) when it's idling. Also, upon inspecting the oil and filter during changes, they both always seem to be in good shape. Yeah, hopefully I'm not coming across as paranoid. Apologies if I am.

Nothing fancy. Just try to always treat the engine, the entire car, with a bit of mechanical empathy. No high RPMs or big loads until the engine and coolant and oil are thoroughly warmed up. This can take some time even on a mlld day. I let the coolant temp gage get to the "180" hash mark than let it remain there another 5 or more minutes. Even then I don't hit redline until I drive the car longer. It is in some ways hard to relate what I do because it is almost automatic with me, I don't think about it or have a check list.

Take care of services when they are due. This includes plugs, engine air filter, fuel filter -- though my Boxster doesn't have a serviceable fuel filter -- it is part of the fuel pump that is buried in the fuel tank -- tranny and diff fluids, brake fluid (and for manual transmission cars the clutch fluid too). Tips need fluid services. An older car can become too expensive to put back on the road for say even a tranny failure.

Keep the body water drains free of trash. Keep the radiator ducts free of trash. While the fluid is "lifetime" I like to drain and refill the cooling system with fresh anti-freeze and (distilled) water every 4 to 5 years. This helps prolong the life of the water pump and keeps the radiators and the heater core and the hoses and the oil/water heat exchanger from corroding through.

Keep the entire car inside and out clean and looking good. Makes is easier -- to me anyhow -- to spend money on the car if it still looks good. If one lets the car get to looking like an old clunker the car can become one as the owner puts off taking care of things.

Try to enjoy the car every chance you get and last but not least be careful. As a car ages it becomes more likely to be taken off the road due to an accident. The car becomes worth less and less and yet it still costs plenty to fix the car. And it doesn't take a big accident either.

A fews years back my Boxster was bumped from behind by a driver who was "distracted" (CA speak for on the damn cell phone) and when the left hand turn lane light changed and the traffic in it started moving the driver in the car behind mine thought traffic in her lane was moving too and not bothering to check the light that controlled her lane of traffic, or look for the Porsche ahead of her car, took off and ran into the back of my Boxster. Impact speed about 6 to 8mph. (I had a "data logger" with a "black box" feature in the car at the time and it captured the accident telemetry.)

The impact pushed my car into the car ahead of mine so my car was damaged at both ends. New headlight -- the impact popped the headlight out of the fender and the light broke when it hit the pavement. New front bumper cover and paint. New taillight assembly. The high bumper of her car (Toyota SUV actually) cracked a taillight. And of course the car needed a new rear bumper cover and paint. Over $5K (plus $1500 loss of use of car settlement) to fix.

If that same accident happened today, an otherwise good car could be taken off the road.

And you think lightning can't strike twice? Ha!

Last May in the Boxster again stopped at light and the light changed to green. I started off like I have done a bazillion times before and got slammed from the rear. The driver (this time a guy) was texting like some high school girl (I was watching him through the rear view mirror as I waited for the light -- maybe I had a premonition?) and got caught by surprise by the light and took off and ran right smack into he back of my Boxster. This time just the rear bumper cover was damaged. Was still without the car a month. Damn other driver's insurance company dragged its feet on this repair. Going to have to write a nasty small claims court letter to the insured to get my $1500 loss of use of vehicle money.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2015 10:06PM by MarcW. (view changes)

I'll be happy to answer your questions:
First, there have been zero (0) failures of the IMS with a DOF installed
0W40 is probably a bit light for your engine in your location. I would recommend 10W40.
There are no engine oiling problems with the DOF. Porsche provides a port on the left and a port on the right banks that can supply the DOF's oil needs.
These ports are fed immediately after the filter and the cooler and feed no other engine component. They are provided for ancillary uses such a oil pressure sensors, DOF, etc.
The DOF only uses 400 mL/min at max RPMs. The pump flows more than enough with a high margin of error on the high side.
The cost for a reset she'll drive, manual trandmission Porsche is right around $2300 out the door. That price includes the parts, labor, RMS and an oil and oil/ filter change.
That cost is in our shop. Other shops may differ.
There's a recommended installer in Orange Co. TruSpeed Motorcars in Costa Mesa.
Hope that answers everything.
Happy Porscheing
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Thanks a lot, Pedro!

I do have a couple other questions. In one of your videos you had mentioned oil seeping past the bearing seal and getting into the IMS (shaft). If I am understanding correctly, the oil can become rancid and acidic over time, etching the balls and races. So when the DOF is performed and the bearing seal is removed, will the oil in the shaft have the ability to easily drain back out into the pan? Also, if oil can then fill the shaft since it's being sprayed at the bearing, does that mean I would be needing any more oil than usual come oil change time?

Thanks, again!

When the bearing is removed to put a new one in place the IMS will drain out.
The new bearing will have its back seal to prevent oil from filling the IMS.
These cars take 8-9 quarts of oil. If a few ounces get trapped on the IMS that's a nebligie volume.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro

Quote
Jasper987S
Thanks a lot, Pedro!

I do have a couple other questions. In one of your videos you had mentioned oil seeping past the bearing seal and getting into the IMS (shaft). If I am understanding correctly, the oil can become rancid and acidic over time, etching the balls and races. So when the DOF is performed and the bearing seal is removed, will the oil in the shaft have the ability to easily drain back out into the pan? Also, if oil can then fill the shaft since it's being sprayed at the bearing, does that mean I would be needing any more oil than usual come oil change time?

Thanks, again!

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2015 08:17AM by Pedro (Weston, FL). (view changes)

Tony Callas has installed many IMS bearing kits and has years of experience on Porsches, new and old. As he has mentioned to me a few times, he provided support for Porsche at LeMans a few years back. Good guy, but can be pricey. He writes technical articles for PCA GPX monthly newsletter.

[www.callasrennsport.com]


Tony

Tony is not on the list simply because he hasn't requested it.
Any shop (tech) that has done an IMS bearing replacement can install the DOF.
Happy Porscheing
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

I live in Toledo Ohio, and bought my first Porsche, 03 Boxster last July, after reading about the IMS issues and since my car has very low miles I decided to have a DOF installed. I pad $1800, for the kit, RMS and oil change. Personally my Boxster is a dream come true. As a young boy my dad would take me by the local Porsche dealer and have been in love with Porsches ever since. So wether it truly needed it or not, I don't know, but I'm glad I did. Because it would be a nightmare to lose my Boxster.

Bernie