If this is true, it's bad news Roger987 - 8 years ago |
Re: If this is true, it's bad news Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
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Roger987
The loss of the flat 6 symphony will be bad enough - but not to be offset by a significant increase in performance - it's hard to believe Porsche would do that, especially when others (e.g BMW) are making more power from their turbo 4's than they made from their naturally aspirated inline sixes. Audi's new four will provide more power than its current four (about 25 hp's and 25 'torques')
I would not be surprised to learn that C&D's numbers are wrong.
[blog.caranddriver.com]
[www.automobilemag.com]
Re: If this is true, it's bad news Lawdevil & CURVN8R - 8 years ago |
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Guenter in Ontario
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Roger987
If those numbers are correct, maybe Porsche is just trying to dump the Boxster/Cayman. That's what it feels like.
I really doubt that. If they planned to dump it, they would just stop changing it and just let the present version run its course. Why would you spend substantial money and energy redesigning the Boxster for a new engine to make something worse so people would not buy it.
Re: If this is true, it's bad news CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
Re: If this is true, it's bad news MikenOH - 8 years ago |
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boxtaboy
With turbos though, you can gain quite a bit from an ECU tune. I picked up 41hp and 85 torque from a simple Stage 1 flash on my daily commuter Audi.
Re: If this is true, it's bad news CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
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MikenOH
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boxtaboy
With turbos though, you can gain quite a bit from an ECU tune. I picked up 41hp and 85 torque from a simple Stage 1 flash on my daily commuter Audi.
Very true, but the 981 ECU has been difficult to crack--Softronic has had the "coming soon" moniker on the 981 version for roughly 2 years now:
[www.softronicsoftware.com]
Can't help but think Porsche has decided to get serious about non-stock HP additions and a buttoned-up ECU will limit any future bumps.
Re: ECU tunes CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
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Roger987
I've done a fair bit of research on performance software. I starting 'chipping' my engines with an E36 325i, back in the day when it actually meant I had to take the ECU apart and physically replace a computer chip with a modified one. This was way back, when Jim Conforti was modifying chips in his basement, and just beginning to build a customer base. Eventually, of course, he teamed with Turner Motorsport. Jim was THE man. But I digress.
My observations:
1. Bigger gains can be realized with a turbo engine. This is because the software will increase boost.
2. Increase boost enough, and the pistons will depart the engine. In pieces.
3. The actual honest-to-god performance gain is NEVER as large as the tuner asserts. In fact, more honest tuners will use expressions like 'gains of up to XX h.p.' A gain of even 1 h.p. comes within that description.
4. Anyone who thinks he can modify the engine software tuning with impunity, in terms of impairing/losing/voiding warranty, is not well-informed. google 'Audi TD1 flag'. Yes, maybe in a court of law, Audi would have to prove your tune caused or contributed to the engine failure, but, really, no one person has pockets deep enough to take on Audi in court.
[www.audiworld.com]
In the end, against the increased performance of software modification, one has to consider warranty implications, and long-term effects on the engine. As to the latter, frequent oil changes, and judicious use of that extra power, will help.
I'd sooner Porsche give me the extra power up front, with full warranty.
quote=boxtaboy]
With turbos though, you can gain quite a bit from an ECU tune. I picked up 41hp and 85 torque from a simple Stage 1 flash on my daily commuter Audi.
Re: ECU tunes Roger987 - 8 years ago |
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boxtaboy
quote=boxtaboy]
With turbos though, you can gain quite a bit from an ECU tune. I picked up 41hp and 85 torque from a simple Stage 1 flash on my daily commuter Audi.
Re: ECU tunes CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
Re: If this is true, it's bad news Lawdevil & CURVN8R - 8 years ago |
Re: If this is true, it's bad news Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Re: If this is true, it's bad news MikenOH - 8 years ago |
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Gary in SoFL
One thing I say say for sure is that there are only about 50 ordered Cayman S's in the pipeline in the entire USA with another 6 floating around un-allocated. No new allotments anticipated for months, maybe till the end of the year, and after that who knows. There is something going on at Porsche. We'll be seeing four banger turbos very soon, and who knows if the 6MT will be available with them.
On the other hand, the Jag F-Type is now being offered with a manual transmission. That worm has certainly turned.
Re: If this is true, it's bad news Lawdevil & CURVN8R - 8 years ago |
Re: If this is true, it's bad news joris - 8 years ago |
Re: If this is true, it's bad news Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
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joris
To make sure that I can enjoy the symphony in flat six for many years to come I ordered a new S, delivery Oct/Nov 2015. My 987.2 (June 2009, 95k km) is in perfect state, but I expect the new S to serve me six more years than my current 987
You, slow? I don't think so *NM* Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Re: If this is true, it's bad news MikenOH - 8 years ago |
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Gary in SoFL
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joris
To make sure that I can enjoy the symphony in flat six for many years to come I ordered a new S, delivery Oct/Nov 2015. My 987.2 (June 2009, 95k km) is in perfect state, but I expect the new S to serve me six more years than my current 987
Was it tough for your dealer to find an S allocation? Cayman S allocations are but non-existent. I assume Boxster S allocations are about the same. Lots of us who appreciate what these cars have been are ordering new ones before the engine changeover.
While I'm in awe of Porsche marketing cleverness from a business perspective, I'm distrustful of that same cleverness as a consumer. Their pricing structure, sky high option costs, and bundled packages is somewhere between predatory and brilliant.
If the rumors, leaks, and stories are to be believed, cylinders & horsepower are down, prices may increase, engine music will be artificial, crappy GPS and MFD display will be better, Caymans will cost less than Boxsters, the body will look much the same.....and the 981 will be different.
Porsche rarely makes changes without improving the breed, but I don't know about this one, even considering the quote by Ferry Porsche, “Change is easy, but improvement far more difficult”.
I may jump on the bandwagon myself, this week, with a Halloween delivery time frame like the one you have.
Re: If this is true, it's bad news joris - 8 years ago |
Re: If this is true, it's bad news Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Re: Stopped by the dealer today..... No other GTS allocation besides mine Lawdevil & CURVN8R - 8 years ago |
Re: Stopped by the dealer today..... No other GTS allocation besides mine Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
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Lawdevil & CURVN8R
Which dealer is that? I got word Friday from Henessy that my Macan has been built and is now waiting for a ship. My guess is it will be here in of August - although we wan't be back from europe until September 10 to pick it up.
Same one you are using..... *NM* jg wnc - 8 years ago |
Re: If this is true, it's bad news Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
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Gary in SoFL
If the rumors, leaks, and stories are to be believed, cylinders & horsepower are down, prices may increase, engine music will be artificial, crappy GPS and MFD display will be better, Caymans will cost less than Boxsters, the body will look much the same.....and the 981 will be different.
I may jump on the bandwagon myself, this week, with a Halloween delivery time frame like the one you have.
Re: If this is true, it's bad news Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Re: If this is true, it's bad news Roger987 - 8 years ago |
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Guenter in Ontario
If these latest rumours are true, the Cayman will finally be priced less than the Boxster, which it should have been all along, simply because it's got to cost more for the convertible top and mechanism than what it does to weld a steel roof onto the car.
If this 3 model version (base, S and GTS) is correct. That's a departure from the past when new models were introduced. That makes me think that:
- the Boxster with it's less powerful 240 HP engine will be the entry level convertible priced at less than the current Boxster
- the Boxster S will cost about what today's 265 HP Boxster does and be similar in content, but with the 300 HP turbo 4 engine
- the Boxster GTS will be price about the same as the current Boxster S, so going from 315 to 370 HP
Guenter, that scenario is quite plausible.
One aspect I didn't mention in my original post, is torque. With turbo engines, torque is often the more impressive number.
For instance, in the link below, torque of 295 lb ft is suggested for the 2 litre turbo 4 (the medium engine). That would be a very substantial increase from the current 2.7 (206) and even the Boxster S 3.4 (266)
I would imagine Porsche will make sure that torque is available from low rpms, and that the engine will still rev freely.
If BMW can do it, Porsche can do it.... better.
[www.carmagazine.co.uk]
Plausible - maybe; likely - don't think so..... Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Re: Plausible - maybe; likely - don't think so..... MikenOH - 8 years ago |
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Gary in SoFL
If, and that's a BIG IF, Porsche lowers prices across the 981.2 line, it's only because they recognize the new offerings won't be as desirable, marketable or as good as the current one. They will be going 'down-market', not their usual style, but they already have a bit with their much reduced interior options. We should know soon, maybe by the late September Frankfurt auto show.
Better order your new, base, NA, 981.1 before ALL allocations are gone and it's too late, Roger.
Welll.... not enough info there grant - 8 years ago |
Re: You, slow? I don't think so *NM* Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Re: Welll.... not enough info there CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
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grant
First, the typical benefit of a modern turbo ( not those of yore) is a low, wide, flat torque band. HP is a peak number. I'd want to see the curves before i say too l=much ( how's that for a softball, Harvey, we're all waiting...).
Next, as someone noted below, turbos are pretty simple to hot rod. The old Audi 2.7 bi-turbo went from 250/250 to 350/350 with the push of a map. Since Porche designed this to have higher output, supposedly it is built to take the pressure and heat. Just like the M96. Ooops, cancel that.
But overall, manufacturers are moving toward greener solutions - so entry and mid-level cars that have lower CO2 and fuel use are not irrational.
I'll keep my car, thanks. It may be slow, but it makes up for it it lethargy.
Grant
Re: Welll.... not enough info there Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
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boxtaboy
The thing that going to turbo will do, however, is allow buyers of the "lessor" model line to chip the car and equal or surpass the power of the more premium Carrera buyer..... Something that couldn't really be done before with the engines being naturally aspirated. Some 911 owners will be smoked by some of the tuned turbo Boxsters and Caymans.
Re: Welll.... not enough info there CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
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Guenter in Ontario
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boxtaboy
The thing that going to turbo will do, however, is allow buyers of the "lessor" model line to chip the car and equal or surpass the power of the more premium Carrera buyer..... Something that couldn't really be done before with the engines being naturally aspirated. Some 911 owners will be smoked by some of the tuned turbo Boxsters and Caymans.
The only "problem" with this theory is that the 991.2 is also going turbo, but with the flat six.
More grist for the mill....testing in Canada....g-man may be holding out on us Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Isn't speculation fun mikefocke, '01S Sanford, NC - 8 years ago |