Noise levels ...

I am on my second Boxster (currently a 2009 base) and I've been thinking about a move to a certified pre-owned Targa. My Porsche is a daily driver. The main reason for the move from the Boxster to the Targa would be to gain interior space and increase my own comfort level on longer trips (both by having more space, and a bit quieter highway ride).

I test drove a Targa 4 with 19 inch wheels (no PASM) over the weekend and was a bit surprised by how much worse the ride quality was in the 911 compared to my Boxster with 18 inch wheels. Knowing that the Targa is the "softest" riding of all the 911 variants, I'm curious how much better riding the car would be with either 18 inch wheels or PASM. I should also add that overall engine and road noise was significantly louder in the 911.

So is the Boxster a better "GT" touring car, or would a 911 with 18 inch wheels ride that much better?

Comments/Thoughts?

the ride quality, that is makes it less harsh.

My Boxster has 17" wheels/tires and the Turbo has 18" wheels/tires and the Boxster is far and away the less harsh riding vehicle and a suprisingly quiet vehicle.

The Turbo is not that bad, but there's a noticable difference and one that I do not believe would improved all that much let alone eliminated if I were to drop the Turbo's wheel size to 17" (besides cost brake clearance I think keeps me from doing this) or up the Boxster's wheel size to 18" (cost!).

Also, I'm not sure the Targa is the softest riding 911. I would think that distinction would go to the Cab.

My belief is the 911 (based on my experience with the Turbo) is the better touring car. Visibility -- unless you 'tour' with the Boxster's top down and I can't imagine running a full day at any reasonable speed (that is reasonable in covering distance like a touring car is asked to do) with the top down -- is better, the car is a bit more secure from unwanted intrusion (hardtop vs. softtop) for this times the car is parked in a motel/hotel parking lot, and the Turbo has room for me to move the driver's seat all the way back and lower the seat back so I can stretch out and relax/nap even when I get tired. This last 'feature' is I think a life saver, cause I get sometimes so tired on the road. I can stop and did stop in the Boxster but it was awkward to try to find a way to prop myself up with pillows so I could get a good rest from a short stop.

More on that top down thing... My Turbo has a moon/sun/whatever roof and I have tried it open fully and even in vent mode and in full open mode even at slow speed cruising I can't stand the wind noise and turbulence. Even in just vent mode the increase in noise over time becomes tiring. The car has an excellent autoclimate control system and I use that and enjoy comfort and quiet.

Both of my cars have cruise, but the Turbo has real intermittent wipers and much better headlights. In the case of a new Boxster of course I think both of these options would be a good choice for a 'touring' car regardless of the body/chassis style. On-board computer is nice too cause it gives one a way to track fuel consumption, monitor outside air temperature and so on.

Oh, if I were in a position to buy another Porsche I would seriously consider the GTS. It can be optioned, or comes optioned with all the necessities I believe well necessary for a good touring car, but one can also order it with a 90 liter fuel tank! That's 23.7 gallons vs the standard tank capacity of 16.9 gallons. One thing that really cuts into efficient high speed touring is fuel stops. 'course there is a benefit to making a fuel stop a rest stop but oftentimes I'm not tired when I stop for fuel so I end up stopping twice. Once for fuel or rest and then again for rest or fuel.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Interesting thought Marc, but wouldn't there be a trade off between not having as many fuel stops and carrying (at least for a while) the additional fuel weight of about 55 pounds with the larger tank?

Quote
MarcW

Oh, if I were in a position to buy another Porsche I would seriously consider the GTS. It can be optioned, or comes optioned with all the necessities I believe well necessary for a good touring car, but one can also order it with a 90 liter fuel tank! That's 23.7 gallons vs the standard tank capacity of 16.9 gallons. One thing that really cuts into efficient high speed touring is fuel stops. 'course there is a benefit to making a fuel stop a rest stop but oftentimes I'm not tired when I stop for fuel so I end up stopping twice. Once for fuel or rest and then again for rest or fuel.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

weight does affect fuel economy, the stop itself has I suspect a greater affect on fuel consumption. I note with my Turbo and its mpg display, the mpg reading can remain quite low until I get the car back on the highway and assume more mpg friendly cruising.

Thus the fewer stops for fuel the better the overall fuel economy.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Interior luggage room? Legroom? Total luggage room?

Tried the Cayman with 17" or 18" tires?

i have an 03 boxster S and it's a soft ride compared to my 06' 997S

... in mid and rear engined hard tops is generally higher than convertibles.
The fabric material and the liners make the Boxster a very quiet car with the top up.
Of all the 911s, the Targa is the noisiest because sound just bounces off the long glass top.
Most people that test-drive the Cayman on long stints also complain of the same.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Pedro is right. My Cayman is certainly louder than my earlier C4S or Boxster. The engine noise bounces off the glass in the hatch which makes for a louder passenger compartment. Also there is some slight vertical motion in the Cayman's rear hatch (bouncing on the weatherstrip, for lack of a better description). It is not bad, but it is enough to feel the pressure change in my ears over larger bumps. After feeling "beat up" by the C4S on 18" wheels, I ordered the Cayman with 17" wheels specifically for the improved ride quality. The Cayman is much quieter than the C4S in terms of tire noise. It also helps that the recommended rear tire pressure on the Cayman is 37 PSI and the C4S was 44 PSI. I do miss the more roomy interior, but the C4S just felt much heavier and the Cayman feels much more light on its feet.

I have 19" wheels on my 997S Cab. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but just like my two previous Boxsters, I can drive my car all day long. Also, the 911 just simply seems to be a more solidly built auto, and it should for the price Porsche charges. Yes, washboard roads are harsh, but I drive my car every chance I get. My daily commute is only 4 miles each way, but DC roads are third-world quality. I'm looking forward to a few roadtrips in it this summer. It's a fine cruiser, with heated steering wheel and seats and ventilated seats for the summer. Also, me personally, I like to hear the engine note, and it is much more pronounced in the 911, but at highway speeds, its mainly when you punch it to pass. Other than that, I can have converstations just fine as well as listen to the radio.

If you are going to spend that kind of money you ought to enjoy the he!! out of it. If the ride prevents it, then stick with the Box as it is a great highway cruiser in itself.

...additional research suggests the lack of PASM with 19 inch wheels could have contributed to the harshness. Some Porsche folks stated that the 19s with PASM has a much better ride (at least in Normal). The 18s with PASM is apparently an even better option for the 911. I'll have to find one to drive to see for myself. Thanks for all your comments.

I have an 08 Cayman that I bought in April 09, and had a 99 Boxster immediately before that. My guess is that the biggest factor in noise is how sensitive your hearing is. For me, the noise differential between the two is too slight for me to notice. Seems to me that it is hard to generalize about noise unless you have some sort of measuring device other than your own ears. Noise level is going to depend on the state of your hearing, and probably will also vary a lot from car to car, depending on things like how fast you are going, what the road surface is like, what engine your car has, muffler you use, and what tires are on the car. Maybe I am weird but it seems to me that the noise in my Cayman primarily seems to be the tires. I can say for sure that I have never observed any bounce to the hatch or resulting pressure change in my Cayman, as Markinmd has with his. My Cayman is extremely solid, as one would expect with a hardtop car; I did have squeaks in the old Boxster, however. IMHO Mark may need an adjustment to tighten down his hatch because that condition just doesn't sound right to me.

I researched ways to quiet down the car a few months ago as a way to make the stereo sound better. What I read (and I don't have the link any more) said that the way to quiet down one of these cars is to put sound deadening material on or inside the rear wheel wells. This also fit with my observation that the noise I'm hearing is tire noise. Other people have tried using sound-deadening material under the trunk carpet with little effect, which is counterintuitive if the noise is coming from the muffler and bouncing off the rear window. Maybe the noise gets through the wheel wells and bounces off the glass. I would like to experiment with sound-deadening but that is one of those things like adding an amp and subwoofer that I am going to do sometime when I have a spare $1000 laying around that my wife doesn't already have earmarked to spend. Unfortunately, that situation happens about as often as an alignment of all the planets.

is the tires are seldom the same brand, size and wear level and the roads even vary.

It is a condition I often cite when people exclaim about how their new tire brand of choice is so much better...different conditions. (Although I'm the contrarian and actually prefer my too old half worn Ribs to my brand new PS2s...both Ns. Though maybe because I bought the Ribs for half what the PS2s cost I treated them differently.)

Quote
paulwdenton
... Noise level is going to depend on the state of your hearing, ...

It's amazing how much noisier my Boxster isafter I got new hearing aids

Last Friday I had to make a family emergency return from sunny Florida to NY (1300) miles and took it as an opportunity to bring the Box back north rather than shipping. At least 80% of the drive (over two days) was with the top down and on cruise control. Averaged 28 mpg with an "average" speed of 74. Gas prices ranged from a high of $4 in Georgia (rip-off) to $3.50 in NC.
At no time did I feel the Box was noisy wither with the top down or up although at the speeds I was traveling I mostly drove with the windows up for the cocoon effect. Space also was not a problem with the rear and front trunks packed up as well as the front passenger seat. Amazing what you can fit in with a little creative packing.

Burt

I do recall the cabin did remain quieter and with less turbulence with the side windows up. And my car came with the wind deflector (the plastic panel that fits between the roll bar hoops) too.

Anyhow, glad you enjoyed the drive. I've covered over 1000 miles in a day (a long! day) in my Boxster and the car is a very good GT car and is very comfortable.

You touched upon one very positive aspect of the Boxster that I forgot to mention and that is the Boxster has way more cargo space than the 911 (my Turbo at least). Amazing how much stuff that front trunk holds and the rear trunk is also quite spacious and offers useful room for stuff.

While I can shove stuff behind the front seats in the Turbo it is awkward -- plus is in plain view. Some time back in moving a soft suitcase into and then out of the Turbo's back seat area I managed to knock one of the seat belt covers loose. I asked a tech and he graciously agreed to re-install the cover for me -- a bit of fiddle (I watched him) -- so the car is back in one piece again, but I still do not like using the space behind the seats but I have to in order to carry what I need when I take a long (week or longer) road trip.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

I agree with you 100%. The Boxster is a GREAT road trip car. We had no problem taking all the things we needed on our 18 day trip out to California and back. We were also fortunate enough to have sunshine for all but a total of maybe 5 hours of rain. The rest was top down all the way. There's just nothing like enjoying the open road, the sun above, limitless view of your surroundings and the Symphony in Flat Six accompanying the whole thing.

Life doesn't get much better than that.

With a little planning you can cram a lot of stuff in them. When the wife and I went to the Parade in Mont Treblant in our '97 we had a whole lot of things. We were on the road for about a month with visiting family and friends. After the Parade we toured eastern Canada (Quebec, PEI, Nova Scotia) and came back to the states via the catamaran ferry to Bar Harbor, ME. Even had my golf clubs and played in the parade tournament (El Diable?) and PEI (The LInks at Crowbush Cove -- great course). Also a couple of rounds with my brother in Illinois. Another time with the '02 we spent a week in Flagstaff, AZ, 10 days in San Diego (Parade), a week in Ventura, CA, and 3 days in Las Vegas--with golf clubs; no problems again as long as you plan what you need and have the right kind of luggage.

I've driven a lot of 987s and 997s, both with and without PASM, and most with 19s. Even taking roadsters out of the equation, a Cayman S on 19s rides a lot better than any 997 I have driven. It always feels like the rear tires of 911s are bolted directly to the frame. My theory is that the increased mass over the rear axle necessitates much stiffer springs back there to get the same amount of body control. Your only hope for a comfortable 997 on crummy roads like Michigan's is PASM and 18s, and even then, it isn't what I'd call supple.

I've driven a 997 Carrera cab (dealership), a 997S Carrera cab (thanks Gundo), a 996GT3 (thanks Moogle), and various 986 and 987 Boxsters, including a Cayman S, and to be honest, I can't tell much of a difference in ride. The 911s felt fine to me ride-wise. What I did notice, however, was there was less noise coming out of the 911s because there was no engine and engine air intake directly behind your ears like there is in the Boxster.