Also, keep in mind that most aftermarket water pumps...

Greetings,

1998 Boxster 5 speed with 82,000 miles. Oil changed every 5,000 miles with Mobil1 0-40

Today the upper belt tensioner pulley seized and threw the belt; I will have those replaced tomorrow. This got me thinking about any preventive maintenance I should do this spring, as I want to lower the chances of getting stranded by something I could replace now.

Some history: I purchased the car in August 2008 with 41,000 miles and I immediately completed the following maintenance:

All Items included in the 30k, 45k, 60k and 90k maintenance (since the car was 10 years old at the time), which included (among other things) an oil/filter change, new plugs, new belt, manual trans oil change, particulate filter, latest coolant tank cap etc, etc. On top of that I changed the brake fluid and did a coolant flush and brake job along with a few minor odds and ends.

What is still original to the car at 82,000 miles: water pump. AOS, MAF, coolant reservoir tank and the other two tensioner pulleys.

Two questions, besides the two other tensioners that I plan to replace is there any concensus as to replacing the listed original parts to help avoid being stranded, and are there any other common items I am leaving out that, save for major failure, would strand me? Also, I see the aftermarket water pumps are a third of the cost of OEM. Any opinions as to their overall reliability vs the OEM water pump?


Thanks for any input to these questions that are left open to a wide range of opinions!

Regards,

Sebastian Gaeta
Ann Arbor, MI

Quote
SPG356
Greetings,

1998 Boxster 5 speed with 82,000 miles. Oil changed every 5,000 miles with Mobil1 0-40

Today the upper belt tensioner pulley seized and threw the belt; I will have those replaced tomorrow. This got me thinking about any preventive maintenance I should do this spring, as I want to lower the chances of getting stranded by something I could replace now.

Some history: I purchased the car in August 2008 with 41,000 miles and I immediately completed the following maintenance:

All Items included in the 30k, 45k, 60k and 90k maintenance (since the car was 10 years old at the time), which included (among other things) an oil/filter change, new plugs, new belt, manual trans oil change, particulate filter, latest coolant tank cap etc, etc. On top of that I changed the brake fluid and did a coolant flush and brake job along with a few minor odds and ends.

What is still original to the car at 82,000 miles: water pump. AOS, MAF, coolant reservoir tank and the other two tensioner pulleys.

Two questions, besides the two other tensioners that I plan to replace is there any concensus as to replacing the listed original parts to help avoid being stranded, and are there any other common items I am leaving out that, save for major failure, would strand me? Also, I see the aftermarket water pumps are a third of the cost of OEM. Any opinions as to their overall reliability vs the OEM water pump?


Thanks for any input to these questions that are left open to a wide range of opinions!

Regards,

Sebastian Gaeta
Ann Arbor, MI

You can replace the items you mentioned or you can wait until signs appear one of them needs attention.

My 02's water pump lasted until over 170K miles. It gave me some warning (noise) but I didn't delay in having the car towed 15 miles to a dealer and having it replaced.

The coolant tank failed at over 200K miles. In my driveway. The fuel pump quit at around 220K miles and in my driveway.

I have replaced the belt several times now but all the tensioner/idler roller bearings are original.

The original MAF (replaced by me following an error in disagnosis) was put back into service following the failure of the replacement MAF (which lasted approx. 80K miles) and original MAF even after being out of service then put back in service is still functioning just fine.

The 1st AOS failed close to home -- but still over 40 miles from a dealer -- while the 2nd AOS failed 2K miles from home and 90+ miles from the nearest dealer. (Same dealer that replaced the 1st AOS as it turned out.)

Of all the items you mentioned, based on my experience the only item I would replace without any signs of needing it would be the AOS. My car's 3rd AOS has probably 60K miles on it and while I might drive the car until the AOS acts up which is not the end of the world cause I do not take the car any distance from home anymore, I might instead just decide to have it replaced at sometime between now and when it acts up. When it acts up because I'm often guilty of putting things off until well, until they act up.

Oh, while the engine has had several sets of new plugs it is on its original coils, although the engine did log some misfire error codes a few weeks back. But the misfires have not returned.

Also, might as well mention it the car is on its orignal CV boots but the tech tells me they are getting very dry and while there are no cracks yet, he recommends replacing them. If I do this before the boots fail, just a CV joint clean/regrease with new boots is needed. If I wait the CV joints (shafts) will have to be replaced.

Yet another thought... Be sure you thoroughly check *all* of the radiator/coolant hoses. I checked with my tech a while back about replacing these (when teh coolant tank failed) and he said 1) He has seldom seen a hose fail; and 2) the job is expensive. I didn't get a number but my sense is it is over $1200 in parts and labor, mainly labor given labor at my local dealer is $150/hour.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Hi Marc,

Thanks so much for the great info. Can I ask your opinion with a different point of view? I failed to mention that the car is my daily driver (41,000 miles in 2 1/2 years) and I do take the car far away from home and also take some spontaneous long trips (400 or 500 miles). That is the reason I want to make the car as "Breakdown Proof" as possible. I am not naive to think that whatever I do would be 100% foolproof, but knowing the car is a DD, would that change any of your suggestions?

Also, any opinions on aftermarket vs OEM water pumps?

Regards,

Sebastian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2011 08:14PM by SPG356. (view changes)

auto club.

No car is break down proof. As I found even though I took as good of care of my car as anyone the car broke down several times. Fortunately for me most of these occured either at home or close to home.

The one exception that I can think of is the 2nd AOS failure which started going bad (based on check engine light coming on) about 700+ miles from home (Livermore CA) in Flagstaff, AZ. The check engine light came on one maybe 2 more times each time I was another 700+ miles further along. I suspected the problem was the MAF. But the 1st start of the day in a motel parking lot had the oil smoke just billowing out from the exhaust and I knew then it was not a MAF but an AOS.

You can replace the AOS but the fuel pump will fail. Or you replace the fuel pump and the water pump will fail and so on.

You can't afford to 'rebuild' -- replace 'wear' items -- the car very often. Also, the general rule of thumb is don't fix it if it ain't broke. There's always the possibility you'll replace a perfectly good fuel pump only to have new one fail prematured. Rare but it happens.

I have no experience with non-OEM water pumps. The OEM pump that came in my car lasted around 172K miles. Based on my experience, I would be hard pressed to imagine a non-OEM water pump could extend this mileage. That is most owners have not reached 172K miles on any water pump, OEM, let alone non-EOM pumps. Thus then to my way of thinking the non-OEM water pumps are a bigger unknown and therefore a bigger risk than the OEM water pumps.

That don't fix it if it ain't broke rule applies here, too. I have no evidence the OEM water pumps are frail thus there is no reason to 'fix' this imaginary problem by going with a non-OEM pump that we have even less history with.

I'll say it again: Keep on top of things. This ranges from say a slow leaking tire -- fix or replace it! -- to a 'new' noise. In one case with my VW a slow leak was a bad valve stem. I stopped to fill up the tire. I drove on. I got sleepy and stopped (in the middle of nowhere Texas on I-40. Upon waking I walked around the car and spotted the tire flat and I had obviously driven it too long underinflated and it was shot. Lucky for me I had a full sized spare in the car! In another case, in the Boxster, this new noise turned out to be a failing water pump. In another case, after new tires installed, the new noise turned out to be a failing rear wheel bearing.

Before I head out on a long trip I change the oil/filter and if the air filter 'due' I'll change it as well. I keep an eye on vital fluids and keep an eye out for leaks or other signs of possible problems.

Also, almost always I arrange to take the car by a local Porsche dealer and have the car put on a lift and have the car given a road worthiness inspection. Because I have my cars serviced/repaired at this dealer often enough the service manager declines to charge me though I always offer to pay say a half hour's labor ($75) for the tech's time.

I generally listen to the tech, though once in a while I'll decide not to. This generally involves tire life. I've been lucky a few times in pushing on even though the tires are worn nearly out but this last time the tech told me the rear tires were worn out but I thought I could get another 4K miles (2K to my folk's home and 2K miles back) from them.Around 200 miles down the road the car developed a horrible feel under braking that turned out to be a low rear tire. Long story short, couldn't get the tire fixed in Fresno, the dealer in Livermore was closed (Friday after T-Giving) and closed on Saturday. The Walnut Creek dealer was open on Saturday and the service manager said his shop could replace the tires. After driving from Fresno to Walnut Creek, and after spending a night in a motel nearby, bright and early Saturday I learned the dealer didn't have the proper tires in stock. A call to the Sacramento dealer turned up 4 new Bridgestones. After having the service manager confirm he was looking at 4 tires of the proper type/size, I said "I'll take them" and left Walnut Creek and drove straight up to Sacramento with a slow leaking tire in the rain and had 4 new tires installed.

In this case, not listening to the tech cost me 2 days (Friday and Saturday) of my vacation and nearly 800 miles additional driving to get tires.

The good news is I encountered heavy snow fall on I-40 between Four Corners NM and Santa Rosa NM and very likey the new Bridgestones -- even though they are not (obviously) snow tires -- probalby kept me and the Turbo on the road.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Thanks Marc,

We both agree that no car is breakdown proof! The water pump is dry and I will take your advice, which is the same as my tech's--leave it alone if it is not showing any signs of failure.

I will do this, however: replace the other two tensioners as one has failed already, replace the AOS and then do full inspections of the water pump and coolant tank at each service, which for me is about every four months. That will be pretty good peace of mind.

Thanks again Marc,

Sebastian

By 'show signs of a leak' this refers to the water pump can obtain a stain (whitish deposits) that is coolant leaking out and drying.

The techs tell me Porsche has some guidelines for this, the size of the stain and where it is located. They did not volunteer this info.

The stain is created as the cooling system pressure increase immediately after a hot engine is shut off. This will (or can) force some coolant out past the seal. But because the engine and coolant are hot the water should evaporate almost at once leaving behind a bit of whitish anti-freeze residue.

But I think you can tell the difference between a tiny bit of whitish stain that is normal for a healthy water pump vs. the signs an obviously bad water produce.

Of course one of these is wetness on the pump, on the ground, anywhere. The pump should be quiet. With the engine off and cold feel the belt. The edges should have a bluntness to them. A sharp edge (in my Boxster's case the inner edge) is a sign some accessory drive has enough play that the belt is not tracking correctly. The belt should *not* contact any pulley side.

Also, I have no experience with belt idler roller/tensioner roller bearings. All of these on my Boxster are original.

Wait. One of the Turbo's idlers developed a 'dry bearing' noise that was hard to pinpoint but the consenous was it was coming from up high on the engine.

I was on the road, in Tehachipi CA in fact, and paid an auto repair shop owners $20 to put the car in the air with the engine idling while we gave the bottom of the car a good going over. No signs of any fluid leaks.(At some, with the engine off you can be sure, I checked the belt and found no signs the belt was contacting any pulley sides.)

Which brings up another check out you should do. I didn't do it before my experience but I do it now. Check that both the radiator fans work. Not only that they come on when the A/C is turned on but they come on when the engine coolant gets hot enough. You do not have to go to the trouble of figuring out a way to measure/monitor the coolant temp.

With the A/C off on a mild day drive the car around at slow speeds until you're sure the engine is fully up to operating temp and has been there a while. Then in a quiet place raise the rpms to 2K or thereabouts for say 30 to 60 seconds. Allow the rpms to fall to idle and remain there for a minute. Then repeat. At some point -- it depends upon how cold the ambient temp is -- you should hear the fans come on. Quick as you can get out the car and check at both front corners that both fans are in fact running and that they sound about the same and based on feel -- do not shove your hand anywhere near the fans -- they are running at about the same speed.

I added the above check when after deciding the dry bearing noise warranted me turning around and coming home to have the problem looked into when I stopped in Fresno after trying to get a low rear tires dealt with and being unsuccessful. As I was sitting in the car debating what to do -- head to southern CA and a Porsch dealer or head north to home and more familiar surroundings -- with the engine idling and the A/C off -- it was a mild day and I did not need the A/C -- I noted what I took to be a sign the fans came on, but something felt different. Different enough that I got out of the car and on a hunch checked that both radiator fans were running. The driver's side fan was running, but the passenger side was not running. (Turned out the motor shaft had snapped and the fan/hub assembly had struck the back of the radiator. Didn't hole it but bent the fins.)

It is somewhat embarrassing to admit that I didn't add this check even after I found my Boxster's passenger radiator fan not running. But after having not only a fan quit on the Boxster (resistor) and then the Turbo, I check the fans' function every once in awhile.

Sometimes it takes awhile for things to sink in.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Quote
SPG356

Also, any opinions on aftermarket vs OEM water pumps?

Regards,

Sebastian

If the OEM water pumps didn't fail, then they wouldn't have aftermarket ones.....

If there were cost savings with going OEM, I would probably put one in.

/pc

Quote
Petee_C

Quote
SPG356

Also, any opinions on aftermarket vs OEM water pumps?

Regards,

Sebastian

If the OEM water pumps didn't fail, then they wouldn't have aftermarket ones.....

If there were cost savings with going OEM, I would probably put one in.

/pc

an aftermarket water pump with even less time in service and less history.

Besides, there are some who believe that the aftermarket parts are of lesser quality that they are seconds or somehow have failed to meet with the quality genuine Porsche parts require. If this is correct, there is the risk then the aftermarket pumps are actually of lesser quality and thus more prone to failure.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Quote
MarcW

Quote
Petee_C

Quote
SPG356

Also, any opinions on aftermarket vs OEM water pumps?

Regards,

Sebastian

If the OEM water pumps didn't fail, then they wouldn't have aftermarket ones.....

If there were cost savings with going OEM, I would probably put one in.

/pc

an aftermarket water pump with even less time in service and less history.

Besides, there are some who believe that the aftermarket parts are of lesser quality that they are seconds or somehow have failed to meet with the quality genuine Porsche parts require. If this is correct, there is the risk then the aftermarket pumps are actually of lesser quality and thus more prone to failure.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

I don't know that an aftermarket part is necessarily better or worse than OEM. I'm just saying that one should research the possibility of using non-OEM parts.

I would suggest that the Porsche bean counters would take into account cost when setting contracts for parts when building vehicles, and that both longevity, reliability and cost are all considered when selecting OEM suppliers.

For me, with no local Porsche dealers, I would consider non-OEM maintenance parts available to me, especially because they tend to be easier to get. I would also say that the majority of money made by a Porsche dealership is on the parts and service side, vs the showroom side.

There is no wrong or right.... it's just the ability to let the consumer decide. Heck, i've got outlaws who seem to replace vehicles once the windshield washer fluid runs low, or the wiper blades need to be replaced.

Peter
- Pedro's enthusiast mount.
- Walmart wiper blades
- eBay - HVAC LCD display
- eBay - headphone adapter
- Hankook Ventus V12 tires





P

One line of thinking has it the parts spec'd by Porsche are better cause the parts have to survive the warranty period (4 years, 50K miles) and while it may be an XYZ' water pump in the engine, it is Porsche's name on the engine (and car), and a sub-par part like a water pump can damage the Porsche name. (Uh, we won't mention the you know what bearing...)

Or maybe not. Maybe the parts are the same.

Since I don't expect to have to replace a water pump on average more often the 6 or 7 years using a genuine Porsche part isn't a big deal for me and I like the peace of mind using one brings.

But use whatever you like.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

There are at least 3 suppliers of the water pump. I'm known for using OEM and not Porsche parts. In this case, it will have to be a Porsche part.

... for Porsche have the metal impeller.
In my book that's a no-no.
If a vane of the impeller breaks off you want it to do no damage inside.
My OEM pump was replaced when my engine failed at 200,000 plus miles, so I know they last.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

OTOH, a metal impeller might (might) be less inclined to shed a piece compared to an impeller made of (composite) plastic.

Also, I just looked at the old water pump (I never got a chance to look at the new one before it was installed) but it looks like the old impeller's plastic vanes rubbed against the opposite surface. If this is right, and I'm not 100% convinced this rubbing occurred (it would be nice to have a new water pump to compare the old one to), the new water pump with plastic impeller 'forms' itself to the contour/shape of the chamber in which it operates which would tend to make the water pump more efficient since there would less clearance for water to escape the confines of the impeller vanes.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

I agree with Marc...replace the AOS. If the AOS fails it could lead to other more costly failures, like the RMS. My AOS failed at about 68k miles...after I had it replaced I noticed oil leaking onto my garage floor. Dealer explained that AOS failure can lead to RMS failure because of something about the RMS being "sucked inside out" (or something like that. RMS failure was the cause of the oil leak. The RMS part itself is cheap, but the labor is very expensive because they have to remove the transmission. I took that opportunity to have the IMS bearing replaced with the ceramic bearing from LN Engineering. It turned out the clutch plate needed to be replaced so I had it replaced too. Replacing the RMS I think would've been something like $1200, which could've been avoided if the AOS didn't fail. But in a way I'm kind of glad to have had to replace the RMS because I have the peace of mind now of having that LN engineering IMS bearing and I don't have to worry about the bearing failing requiring a new engine. And besides I needed a new clutch any way.

In fact, what can happen is a malfunctioning AOS can mask an RMS problem in that it the engine crankcase is subject to an even low air pressure which tends to pull air in past the RMS and help keep it dry. But this also means that this air which contains dust can accelerate the RMS wear, so maybe this is some truth to the AOS leading to a shortened RMS life, after all.

OTOH, my car's RMS was replaced at around the 25K mile mark. The 1ST AOS at around the 80K mile mark the 2ND AOS (WAG) at around 160K miles and yet the replacement RMS is still dry. I'll note that in both cases of a failing AOS I didn't drive the car much when the symptoms appeared. The 1st time probably under 50 miles. The 2nd time, I admit I drove much more than 50 miles. Because the initial symptoms (check engine light and error codes that made me (mistakenly as it turned out) suspect the MAF) I drove roughly 1500 miles until the 3rd day the engine's smoking clearly pointed to an AOS problem.

Anyhow, in many cases the RMS is just fine, but it is the IMS end plate and its 3 bolts that are the source of the leak. When my RMS was replaced (under warranty) the IMS end plate and its 3 bolts were replaced with updated parts. The end plate came with a 3 ribbed seal instead of the single o-ring and the bolts were treated to a micro-sealant that helped form a thread seal to prevent oil seeping past the bolt threads and out from under the bolt heads. The bolts thread directly into the crankcase and are subject to oil splash.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

'01S TIP bought at 42k miles and did the 60k plus and brakes just to give myself a baseline on where the maintenance situation was. Now at 58k and 5 years later (hey, I have other interests and only put 2-3k miles/year on the other cars which do hold the grandkids...I have my priorities straight) I'm ready for another major service...this time the 90k. All fluids, AOS and water pump. Complete inspection. I'll pass on alignment since my last set of tires wore spectacularly evenly.

I'm trying to find a good indie in the Cary/Raleigh area.