You'll need very tall stands *NM*

Hey everyone,

Been super stressed with work lately so I haven't been on here much. My 2000 986 and I are getting pretty desperate for a new clutch and likely a new flywheel as well.

So I've been doing some research and haven't found much on people doing their own clutch work. I found a PDF through google that has a pretty nifty write-up sans pictures (unfortunately).

I just feel like I can do it, I can't explain it. I love a challenge and the idea of saving $1000+ by doing the work myself brings to mind a lot of cold beer to celebrate. Has anyone here done their own clutch (and flywheel)? Heck, considering how much I'd be saving, I'd even consider doing the IMS without question while I'm at it (~$500 for the part from LNE, for those who don't know). My car is slipping in ALL gears, it started in 5 and worked its way down rather quickly. I have been driving gingerly with slower than usual (gradual) acceleration to try and drag this out, albeit wearing my flywheel.

I've already purchased and have:

-986 2.7 clutch kit
-New bolts for clutch etc
-RMS

Currently, I don't have stands or a good low-profile jack (I had to take the wheels off the one I got from Walmart to get it under the car which made it rather unstable as it reduced its stance). I'll buy what I need if I end up doing it.

Around this time last year, I upgraded the exhaust on my car myself. I was nervous about doing it, but felt so good to not pay someone else. Taking the stock unit out was quite the task, all the hardware needed to be replaced. I used all OEM equipment. If I do the clutch, I'll need to remove the exhaust again and I think it won't be nearly as difficult since this hardware hasn't been on for more than a year. The transmission being behind the engine under the rear trunk makes it seem doable.

Does anyone have advice on this? Am I asking for trouble?

On the plus side, if I do end up doing this, I'd take pictures and video of the whole thing. I took a ton of pictures and video clips of my convertible to cable replacement that I hope to upload and edit soon, I think people will really appreciate it.

Hope you're all having a good week!

Get the car up high but absolutely rock solid stable on four jack stands. Safety is the top priority.

Be prepared for it to take a while and not necessarily everything will go smoothly. If you run into problems, people on this board can help you get through them.

If you have the original throwout bearing on your transmission, you should consider replacing it. When it wears, the clutch gets much harder to push.

+1 on the throwout bearing. I was amazed at the difference with a new one.

Hey Boxsterra, thanks for your reply.

Your first comment on safety is my greatest concern. I've always been apprehensive about jack stands. I have never used them and I have visions in my head of them kicking out and me getting crushed underneath. Needless to say, I'd like to avoid that scenario. I really dislike the design of the jack stand tops "u" or "v" shape, I have seen that many here use a modified hockey puck to reduce damage to the car. My concern in that would be making the car unstable. Are there any jack stands that have flat tops with pre-implemented rubberized pads for placement under the vehicle? Walmart has been my place to go for these type of things since they have quite a selection and good prices.

When the transmission is separated, would I be able to remove it from under the car? I'd be concerned with clearance at the rear to be able to remove it. On it's own, the trans should clear, but on a rolling jack, it might not.

In terms of getting the car as high up as possible, I am somewhat confused with procedure for doing so. Every jack stand has a limit on height and like standing on a ladder, I'd imagine it becomes less stable the higher it is. Now, if I jack the car up to the maximum height of the stand, place a stand under the car at that point, lower the jack, and then move to the adjacent side to do the same, isn't there a risk in the stand kicking out? Would I have to go little by little in a circle around the car gradually increasing the height of the stands?

I've taken my dogs to the local pet store to bathe them myself, they have a whole professional setup you can rent to use their. I wish such a place existed for cars. The ability to simply drive the car in and flick a switch to get the car 7 feet in the air would be pretty nice.

Since I got my car back in 2005 (it's a 2000), they (mechanics at the dealer) have been saying I need a new clutch because of how heavy the clutch pedal was. It doesn't seem that heavy to me, what what can I really compare that to. In any case, I went ahead and ordered the clutch kit and I'm pretty sure the throwout bearing was included in my order.

I am very patient with projects, I just want to be sure that the procedure is done correctly. I'd hate to do the work, lower the car, and then have ____________ happen.

Thanks again for your reply!

Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?

+1 This would have made it easier. I supported the engine with a jack on plywood, lifting on the oil pan, and it made me very nervous to put that much weight on the pan.

Do you think that was ok? With all the weight on there? It sounds like you distributed the weight is bast you could.

I was digging online a bit, do you think suncoast or sunset sells the support bar? I might just have to do what you did. Do you by any chance have any pictures of the procedure/setup you used?

i think the oilpan is strong enough for the engine weight..... take a look at how spare motor's are stored....

[www.google.ca]

P

... such as a pallet jack, the oil pan is strong enough, because it distributes the weight evenly throughout the whole oil pan.
But it is NOT safe to put a jack (with a small area) under the oil pan to support the weight of the entire engine.
I have seen several that have cracked that way.
There's a strong point just in front of the oil pan that can take the weight of the engine on a jack.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Thanks for the reply Laz.

Do you know where I could find one? I'm assuming it's specific to the car.

... than the engine support bar.

[i83.photobucket.com]

Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Haha! Neat idea! Are those 2x4s cut to 4" or 5"? Did you have the car on a lift or stands?

Thanks for the pic Pedro!

Two-by-fours cut to whatever was available (probably 6 inches or so).
The car was on a lift, but stands will work as well.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

These are inexpensive jacks and I was curious if something similar would work better or if plywood on jack is just as good.?.?.

[www.harborfreight.com]

[www.harborfreight.com]

... can support the engine, but they would be in the way.
Also, you can't leave the weight of the engine on a hydraulic jack.
If the pressure of the hydraulic fluid drops, so will the engine.
You need something that holds the engine securely yet is non-intrusive.
That's why I like the blocks of wood.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

I was surprised at how easy it was. It was time consuming, but nothing very technical. I did the IMS also, and the tools supplied by LN made it super-easy. I recommend the Bentley manual for torques, and 101Projects for the narrative.

Mine was on an actual lift, with a transmission jack. It might be tougher without that, but should be doable.

Thanks for the info IFlyLow. I still don't own the Bentley manual, I've held off on it till now for no good reason. I assume it's pretty clear with procedure, right? A few indy shops I called in my area had hesitation, but said they could do it when I told them I had a boxster, I assume they have some sort of service manual at their disposal. I'm going to go ahead and order the book today, is there a good place to get it? Do you think any local chains might carry it?

What's your mechanical history? Me, I've always been into taking things apart and rebuilding them. The car is just a giant version of that with a little more "weight" on safety. I am immensely patient with projects. I feel embarrassed to admit that the exhaust took me 2 days to remove because I was trying not to destroy the hardware. I also had to order parts. It was somewhat comical, my garage was full of stuff and I didn't have room for the whole car so I had it on ramps half in the garage and half out with the garage door closed half way. It looked like something went very wrong, but I must say, it all worked out. I still pat myself on the back on that project. Back to you, what would you say was the most time consuming? Removing the exhaust? How much do you think the trans weighs? Jack stands really worry me, especially if I'm under the car really trying to torque bolts.

I really wish I had an actual car lift. I was looking online and some aren't nearly as expensive as I thought they'd be. Unfortunately, they cost way more than the clutch job from the dealer.

Thanks again!

Also,

How were you able to use an actual lift? I ask because I wish I could take my car somewhere to do the work there, like a "rent-a-shop" with the proper setup.

For me, one of the best benefits of the military- I can rent a bay for $5 an hour. My home away from home! As far as experience, I just tinker, and this was the first clutch I have done. Good luck.

Last time I checked you had to take your car with you when they close. That would rule out a first-time clutch job.

I'm a civilain on a Navy base and have used our Auto hobby shop numerous times. I pay $5/hour and there are a couple of options if a job takes longer than a day. Although the shop has a steady business, I've never had a problem just showing up and getting a bay. I sometimes wonder how come more of our personnel do not use this wonderful facility.

I've had a couple of jobs that I didn't complete in a day.
1. My son and I swapped engines in a Jeep Wrangler last fall over the course of a few Saturdays. We rolled the jeep out into the lot (they actually have a pusher if needed). No issues and no storage fees.

2. Not typical but I have been able to leave my Alfa Spider inside, on the lift, when my motor mount R/R took a little longer than expected!

dghii
2000 Boxster S 6speed 112k miles

You might go through your Bentley manual and the factory manual for procedures.torque specs/special tools required. It is not a bad job, but it is worth taking your time with it as issues will usually crop up(corroded hardware, seized, etc.). Special tools needed off the top of my head are:
1) flywheel lock (nice for torquing down the flywheel)
2)clutch centering mandrel (use the metal factory version, plastic is garbage as it distorts)
3)engine support bar (OTC makes a nice one)
4)RMS press tool (the bad here, it is very pricey
5)gearbox sockets/bits (security, 17mm hex)
There are a few more, like the socket for the axle flange, but that is what is coming to mind now. You should not have a problem with a DIY clutch replacement. Frankly, I feel the RMS replacement can be more tricky, or sensitive in many ways then doing the clutch. It is worth reviewing options of servicing the IMS bearing and case hardware while in there. Just take your time, prep up the tools/parts, and you will be fine.
regards

Yikes, just seeing that list of parts reminds me of the research I'm going to need to do. Is there a source that you use or know of that sells all of those parts? Also, what does the RMS press tool look like? I wonder how much these additional parts are going to cost, I'm sure I'll still be under dealer and indy costs, but it's still a valid concern.

You might consider seeing if there is a place(local to you) that would rent the tools, if possible. The RMS tool is fairly cost prohibitive at around $500+ from Porsche. If your going to upgrade your IMS bearing while in there, L &N engineering(or the like) might have a rental program for the upgrade. There might be someone local to you that is willing to rent them out. For info, I personally like the factory manual set and factory tsbs. Having said that, Porsche has put most of this onto electronic access(on line) which in my view restricts access to a degree, and makes the information more costly for the DIYer in that format. Supposedly, they have started printing manuals again, but I have yet to check since I already have a set(covers MY1997-2004).
Ramps work pretty well for the DIY task(as long as your young) and a floor jack to raise/ lower the gearbox. It should be no issue clearing the car as long as the gearbox is not on the floor jack. I personally, just leave it there as moving it around involves more work. ; ) It is nice to clean the bell housing out and replace the guide sleeve with appropriate seals while your in there. Reading through books and articles before you do it will, or should give you a lot of insight into the procedure and relative level of tooling needed. The more, the better.
regards

Another question: With the transmission on a roll-out of some kind, would it clear under the car if it's on jack stands?

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

[forums.pelicanparts.com]

The sixth image down is the most descriptive for your purpose.

Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?

Dwass,

The short answer is yes.
The long answer is you don't have enough experience with cars to do this clutch job -- by yourself. And, that is the key here - do you have someone to help you that has done a clutch replace job on any car before?
People have done this clutch replace job before using manuals, text, and pictures -- but it seems you are very nervous about being under the car when it is up on jack stands. If it took you 2 days to replace an exhaust, it may take you 4 weekends to do a clutch.

My son and I did our 2002 Boxster S clutch 6 years ago and it took 2 weekends -- oh, I had a kidney stone on the first weekend and that delayed us a bit. However, I have done about 6 clutches in my lifetime (just say over 60) and the Boxster is actually pretty simple --- once you get the car up high enough on the top of the stands and solid.
One of the hard parts is alignment when putting the trans back onto the engine -- a real bit$ch sometimes, unless you are lucky the first time in...

But, if you are determined to do this thing -- then find someone to help you at least while you are under the car...don't intend to scare - just sayin'...
(flame suit on )

Roy Turner
Phoenix, AZ
2002 Boxster S Cobalt/Blk/Blk

I think a symptom of a bent input shaft is the car jumping out of gear, 5th (or higher?) especially.

It is very strong and the transmission isn't that heavy.

I believe it was a warning in Clymer's 912 service manual.

Thanks for the advice Ed(Arizona), I really appreciate everything you've said. I know it seems like the exhaust took me a long time, at 2 days to do it. My delay, in fairness, was attempting to remove and reuse the old hardware. I amazingly got all of it off, but after breaking one of the bolts (over torqued and too rusted), I decided to replace all of it. I was delayed further having to wait to get the new stuff from the dealer (they had to overnight the parts). As I said, I replaced all the old/rusted hardware so I'm hopeful they're still easy to remove with this job since it all has to come off again. Hopefully the transmission will be easier, I don't recall seeing any rust around the bolts the last time I was under there.

I'd like to hear more about your experience changing your clutch. If I could learn from your experience I would obviously be better off and I'd really appreciate it. Hack, I may even be able to shave a couple weeks off the job

-Dwass

Hey everyone,

I hope you're all having a nice weekend! I've been doing some digging over the last week. I found a "self-service" auto shop here in Illinois not too far from Chicago. You can rent a bay out for half or whole day. They have lifts, tools, etc. I'd likely have to bring the specialty/proprietary ones. I called the shop and the owner told me you could rent a mechanic to help with the project as well. He found a guy for me that mostly works on Corvettes, but has some experience with Porsche (up to 1998 I think he said). Anyway, I'm really starting to lean towards doing this that way. It's much more reassuring to have help at hand should I need it. I'm thinking I'll order the Bentley manual (or other?) so that if I do decide to do this, I can start this week. Also, I called LNE and they told me that I need to buy the tools to the the IMS and suggested I buy both versions of the IMS since 2000 and 2001 has single and dual row mixed in the production of 986s. To my surprise, they're also located in Illinois which helps for getting things quickly.

Does anyone here have the LNE tool kit that they would be willing to lend/rent out? I'm still not sure if I even want to do the IMS since mine may be ok. Por911(bc) mentioned a few tools that I would need, the RMS tool sticks out in my mind. I don't have a clue where I could/would find some of these things. Any advice on where to find them? Or, as I mention above, would anyone be willing to lend/rent them out?

I've already found some great youtube videos for the IMS and also some on RMS (albeit somewhat vague) procedure. I would supplement whatever service manual I have with videos, pictures, and, of course, your help.

So I may be crazy... I think I'm going to try this...

... of not replacing (upgrading) the IMS bearing.
I've always said that the IMS bearing in an M96 engine is like a man's prostate.
It will fail, given time.
You should replace it when it's less of an expense, such as when you've dropped the tranny.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Thanks for the advice Pedro, I know you're right on this. I hate to be penny wise and dollar foolish, but this is already adding up fast. The one major deterrent is the need for special tools to do it. The kit costs about $160 for something I will (hopefully) only need once. Also, having to purchase both versions of the IMS is a bit of an annoyance. In the end, I'll likely end up doing it.

I would like to make a list of things I need and should have to get this job done right (and in less than 4 weeks ):

-986 Bentley Service Manual (ordering today, hopefully it will have some info on things I will need)

-986 (OEM) clutch kit + new bolts etc

-Flywheel (Is there any chance I wont need it?) (Slipping in 2-5th with slip in 1st now too, still has some bite, just can't "floor it" )

-RMS (Where can I get the removal and installation tools?)

-IMS (I love my car too much to chance it...) (Anyone have a set of tools?)

-Proper sockets and drivers (Can someone look up what I'll need in case I don't get the book in time? Is it just the 17mm? Truth be told, I have a whole set from the exhaust so I should be safe...)

-Por911(bc)s list:

Quote

1) flywheel lock (nice for torquing down the flywheel)
2)clutch centering mandrel (use the metal factory version, plastic is garbage as it distorts)
3)engine support bar (OTC makes a nice one)
4)RMS press tool (the bad here, it is very pricey
5)gearbox sockets/bits (security, 17mm hex)

(Where can I find some of these tools??? Especially 1,2, and 4)

-Hmmm.... what else?

I may start this week! Thanks for any helpful advice! I'm pretty excited!

Quote
Dwass
Thanks for the advice Pedro, I know you're right on this. I hate to be penny wise and dollar foolish, but this is already adding up fast. The one major deterrent is the need for special tools to do it. The kit costs about $160 for something I will (hopefully) only need once. Also, having to purchase both versions of the IMS is a bit of an annoyance. In the end, I'll likely end up doing it.

I would like to make a list of things I need and should have to get this job done right (and in less than 4 weeks ):

-986 Bentley Service Manual (ordering today, hopefully it will have some info on things I will need)

-986 (OEM) clutch kit + new bolts etc

-Flywheel (Is there any chance I wont need it?) (Slipping in 2-5th with slip in 1st now too, still has some bite, just can't "floor it" )

-RMS (Where can I get the removal and installation tools?)

-IMS (I love my car too much to chance it...) (Anyone have a set of tools?)

-Proper sockets and drivers (Can someone look up what I'll need in case I don't get the book in time? Is it just the 17mm? Truth be told, I have a whole set from the exhaust so I should be safe...)

-Por911(bc)s list:

Quote

1) flywheel lock (nice for torquing down the flywheel)
2)clutch centering mandrel (use the metal factory version, plastic is garbage as it distorts)
3)engine support bar (OTC makes a nice one)
4)RMS press tool (the bad here, it is very pricey
5)gearbox sockets/bits (security, 17mm hex)

(Where can I find some of these tools??? Especially 1,2, and 4)

-Hmmm.... what else?

I may start this week! Thanks for any helpful advice! I'm pretty excited!

If the clutch is slipping odds are the flywheel will need to be replaced. That slippage heats the friction surface up and this creates hot spots and these are hard spots and the flywheel will be grabby and hard to enage smoothly.

In some cases the flywheel can be resurfaced but it takes some experience (or luck) to know if the FW is a resurface candidate.

The problem is while the resurfacing is relatively cheap the cost in terms of time and effort to put the FW in the car and button everything up only to find the FW's performance is unacceptable is the real cost.

The RMS R&R is not a complicated job but it is not a job for an inexperienced auto mech. To remove the seal just screw in some self-tapping screws and using vice grips pull the seal out. Avoid (like death itself) any scratching of the journal the inner diameter of seal must seal against and the bore the outer diameter of the seal must seal against.

The new seal wants to be installed right way out and square and ideally positioned so the new seal's inner sealing diameter does *not* reside at the exact same location as the old seal.

Easy to type in harder to do.

The seal is cheap though so you can if necessary afford to throw one away if you get in crooked or too far.

While the clutch job is relatively straight forward and unless one has no business under the car hard to goof up.

However, the IMS bearing upgrade is I think a bit of a stretch for the beginning DIY'er.

The IMS bearing R&R... If you screw up you could be looking at engine removal and teardown or if you fail to know you screwed up the engine could self-destruct soon after it is started.

Perhaps you can do the work to remove the transmission and expose the RMS and IMS bearing end plate and then flat bed the car to a reputable shop that can do the harder tasks for you, provided of course you check with the shop first and make sure it is agreeable to doing a small (but important) subset of the work.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

MarcW! Thank you for such a thoughtful and clear reply.

I appreciate your input. I found a video of a 986 rebuild on youtube and it showed a guy tapping the RMS in with a rectangular piece working his way around the rim. After that, he used what looked like a cut PVC pipe. Here is the video actually, just found it again:

[www.youtube.com]

I'd like to find a better video, but this is all I could find right now.

And also for IMS:

[www.youtube.com]

and

[www.youtube.com]

Are these good sources?

that way with no problems. The trick is to work the seal in slow. Do not rush the process. Avoid cocking the seal.

For the PCV I've used that technique in the past with great success. What I would do is put a end on the pipe so I could strike the pipe in the center and drive the seal in square. But again if you take your time, don't think you're going to use one hammer blow to drive the thing in all in one mighty Thor blow.

Be sure you measure and determine how far in you want the seal to go. As I said in an earlier post you want to avoid the new seal's sealing lip ending up at the same place the old seal's sealing lip was. The old seal can wear a circular depression (a groove) in the crank diameter and the new seal can't seal this, can't accomodate this smaller diameter.

For the IMS bearing installation I think you need the video/instructions put out by the company that offers the upgrade. I've never done an IMS and do not want to try to advise you on this job.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

I did my RMS without special tools, though I wouldn't recommend it. The first one went in crooked, and I had to pull it out. The second one, I thought I was careful, tapping it in with a punch, but I dented the very fragile face of the seal. I should have tried again, but I determined that the dent didn't affest the sealing surfaces. Now I wonder every day when I will have to replace it again. So far, no leaks! I would look into the pvc pipe.

Sorry you had a trouble with yours, hopefully I'll learn something from your experience. I'm going to order a couple extra RMSs just in case (to have a total of 3). I'm going to look into the PVC tomorrow. I like MarcW's idea of putting an end on it so I can square hammer it. My mind is racing with what I need to do and get before I start. Falling asleep has been the current task

-Dwass