Re: If one is going to change his own oil or have an indy do this the most...

2005 Boxster S Changed oil and was not at max level after checking. Friend added a "little" more and there it is just above max on the digital read out. What to do now? Loosen drain plug slightly then drain some out and recheck?

or the oil filter and dump a filter's worth. You want it between the lines, not at the top of the top bar.

There are two lines. There is one segment above and one below the lines. They represent 250ml above max and 250ml below min .

I have heard and sorta seen, that you can get a mess when you drop the filter - so have a catch bucket. I just back the plug out a little bit and take out what i need.

Being 1 bar below max is, IMO, perfect.

Grant

above the max line is no longer lit.

The factory manuals all caution against overfilling the engine with oil. It is not good for the engine to have too much oil and the other problem is one can't know how much over too much oil there is in the engine.

The oil level sensor is not designed/intended to tell you how much over the max level the oil is, only that the level is over the max line.

To remove excess oil I much prefer the remove the oil filter housing and pour the oil out.

I do not like the loosen the drain plug technique because of the risk that some debris at the bottom of the oil sump gets lodged between the barely open drain plug and the sealing ring or the sealing ring and the sump. When the drain plug is retightened this debris can damage the seal at the drain plug which then can weep/seep a bit of oil, or it can damage the seal at the sump, which also can then seep or weep oil. The difference is a new drain plug is just a few bucks. A new oil sump is more expensive.

The oil filter housing removal technique appears to be a bit more messy but not really. The mess is local/confined to the filter housing. The drain plug holds back a considerable amount of oil. Besides my experience is when one loosens the drain plug there's no oil. Loosen the plug some more and still no oil. Some more loosening of the plug and maybe a tiny bit of oil starts to drip drip drip down. Wait what seems like hours and then with patience gone loosen the plug some more... Oops! The plug is completely free and then the oil in the pan or sump comes gushing out. That's the mess.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

One can lose patience with the drain plug method, especially with cold oil... and then, kablooey! It ain't fun trying to screw the plug back in in a panic. And if the oil's hot, you'll quickly gain an appreciation for the medieval castle defense.

If you raise the right rear wheel even a few inches, for example, you get a drastic difference in the reading on the oil sensor.

Thanks for all the tips. I think I like the oil filter method. After checking the level again on level ground.

This has been a frequent topic on Planet 9. Knowing of this, I asked my indie mechanic about it, and he thinks it's silly. So, we did an experiment on my last oil change, and after the experiment, I had to agree with him. First, I looked up how much oil the car should take (8.7 qts). Then, we drained the old oil for half an hour, and removed and replaced the filter, then replaced the drain plug and added seven (7) qts by measurement. The gauge showed nearly full, only about 2 blocks down from full. Added another 1.5 qts and the indie predicted it would show overfull, and sure enough, it did even though I was still technically 0.2 qts low. And this is true in his shop and in my own garage and everywhere else. I have changed my oil now about 4 times in two years and have always put 8.7 qts into it by measurement and every time it shows overfull and at no time have I had any smoking or any other apparent ill effects. On Planet-9, there were also a lot of others with the same experience. Now honestly, are you people going to tell me with a straight face that I'm harming my engine just because the stupid gauge shows it's overfull? Is it your advice that I should run the car with, e.g., 8 qts instead of 8.7 just so the stupid gauge is happy? I say you rely on honest-to-God measurements, not some electronic doodad.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2011 12:32AM by paulwdenton. (view changes)

First Paul, we are mostly not experts. It is all considered opinion and experience (like experiencing the medieval ills of hot oil, I liked that . So, here is mine.

First, you make a good point. If you do your own oil/filter changes, then filling according to instructions would seem the way to go. So, to my way of thinking this discussion is relevant to folks (like me) who no longer work on their own cars (mechanically - I still love to detail my Boxster).

So, for non-self-oil changers: There is indeed a warning in the manual not to overfill with oil. That said, there is a particular problem with cars after 2005 (?) w/o a dipstick. With my 1999 at about my third oil change at an indy shop, the e-oil gauge was at the top, so I checked the stick. It was about an inch over the top line. I had no idea how much too much this was, but not taking any chances, I drained some oil so as not to loose any sleep. My thinking is that any flunky in an indy or dealer shop tasked with re-filling the car with oil can make a mistake. And, with the newer (improved?) Boxsters w/o a dipstick, there is no way to know if there is just the right amount of oil or way too much.

What I do, and have posted here before, is to specify that the shop refill the oil to get it to the mid-point of the e-gauge and that I will top it off myself. I then top it off when totally cold to a hair under the top bar. At the level I am about 1/4 quart low, well within tolerance.

1999 Arctic Sivler/black/black (sold)
2008s Silver/black/black - so predictable
2011 Outback
8/24/2011 first Grandson

After consulting the Bentley Manual and a Factory Manual, I think there is a point that needs to be brought up. As of MY03 there is a difference in the "stated" engine oil capacities. For MY 97 - MY02 Boxsters the Bentley Manual on Page 03-13 and the Factory Manual Group 0, Page 03-1.5 page 2, (dated 2001), indicate an engine oil capacity of 8.75l/9.23qt following a filter change. Not mentioned in the Bentley Manual but spelled out in the Factory Manual in Group 0, on Page 03-1.10 page 1, (dated 2002), the following is stated:

"Note!
Important! A new specification with regard to oil fill quantities is in force for engines in the Boxster model range as of model 2003. It is imperative that this specification is observed to avoid causing damage to the engine or the exhaust system (catalytic converter)."

Then in Group 0, Page 03-1.10 page 5, (dated 2002), the following is stated:

"Filling capacity with filter (after a dripping time of 20 minutes): 8.25 litres."

That makes a .5l/.53qt difference which would make quite a difference in both the electrical and the dip stick indications. (The MY03+ Carreras actually have a different dip stick. Not so MY03+ Boxsters)

Perhaps this explains why it is difficult getting the oil quantities correct, especially on later model cars.

Bill

Quote
paulwdenton
This has been a frequent topic on Planet 9. Knowing of this, I asked my indie mechanic about it, and he thinks it's silly. So, we did an experiment on my last oil change, and after the experiment, I had to agree with him. First, I looked up how much oil the car should take (8.7 qts). Then, we drained the old oil for half an hour, and removed and replaced the filter, then replaced the drain plug and added seven (7) qts by measurement. The gauge showed nearly full, only about 2 blocks down from full. Added another 1.5 qts and the indie predicted it would show overfull, and sure enough, it did even though I was still technically 0.2 qts low. And this is true in his shop and in my own garage and everywhere else. I have changed my oil now about 4 times in two years and have always put 8.7 qts into it by measurement and every time it shows overfull and at no time have I had any smoking or any other apparent ill effects. On Planet-9, there were also a lot of others with the same experience. Now honestly, are you people going to tell me with a straight face that I'm harming my engine just because the stupid gauge shows it's overfull? Is it your advice that I should run the car with, e.g., 8 qts instead of 8.7 just so the stupid gauge is happy? I say you rely on honest-to-God measurements, not some electronic doodad.

the factory oil change instructions are very clear.

Do not over fill the engine with oil.

With the vehicle level and the oil up to some min. temp (70C or maybe 80C I can't recall right now) drain the oil for 20 minutes. Then add a specific amount of oil.

Now while the amount of oil is given in the factory manual, this amount may or may not agree with what is in the owners manual. The amount of oil is specified in the factory manual or in a chapter revision to it, if for say Porsche changed something in the engine that added to or subtracted from the oil sump volume. I believe the actual oil amount is tied to the car's VIN like almost everything else.

With the specified amount of oil then in the engine the various oil level sensors (in older cars the dipstick and the electronic level sensor and in newer cars just the electronic sensor) are used to measure the oil level. They should indicate the oil level is where the factory manual says it should be.

Now where the oil level should be vis a vis the dipstick is kind of vague. (I only use the dipstick as a crude check to verify the engine has some oil in it before I start the engine. But I still count the number of empty quart oil bottles twice before starting the engine.

Anyhow, in the case of the in-dash display for my Turbo for instance Porsche states that after dumping in 7.8l of oil (8.25 quarts) *slowly* and then checking the oil level (the engine must be running and up to temp) the 7 lower segments/bars of the level display should be lit. There is no plus or minus numbers given, like +1 bar, -2 bars.

I asked a tech what was the allowable variation and he said there is none. I asked if he ever found a reading that was lower or higher. He said the only thing he has seen (and only once) was a sensor that provided no reading at all and after he replaced the sensor then the reading was right.

Now if one does his own oil changes or has some indy shop do them chances are he does not the official oil amount only what's in the owners manual. Even if he has the factory manual he may not have the TSB or revision that specifies the correct amount of oil which may differ from the publicized amount.

So, about all one can do is 'sneak' up on the oil level. Say if the manual calls for 8.75 quarts of oil dump in just 8 quarts. Then check the oil level however one does for his particular vehicle. (My Boxster and my Turbo have quite different oil level check procedures.)

If what the tech told me holds for all cases, then you'll get a reading from the sensor. Add oil to bring the level up the max level, but not above it. Most of us would probably get within one or even two segments/bars and call it good enough.

Now my thinking is that without the specific amount of oil one has to be a bit more on his toes. If one dumps in say 8 quarts and the level doesn't show at all... that to me would be a sign the oil level sensor is off. The same applies too if the level read way higher than one expected.

With the newer oil level sensors/senders an oil change is not just a time to renew the oil/filter but a time to verify the oil level measuring/reporting system is functioning properly as well. One relies, or should rely upon this to frequenty keep an eye on the oil level and keep the oil level topped up.

IIRC Porsche states that the oil level hitting the min mark or lower is not a sign to add oil, the oil should be kept about the min mark and never venture below that.

One reason for this is the oil level is checked with the car level, at rest, and either with the engine shut off (and having been off for a while) or with the engine idling and after idling for a while (20 seconds max by the seconds counter displayed on my Turbo's dash). If the oil level reads extremely low under these circumstances it may under some operating conditions result in insufficient oil supply to the engine's critical parts or oil that is not sufficiently defoamed or even cooled.

It is not unheard of that when the engine is operating hard that several quarts of oil can be in the engine so the level -- if one could check it at that time -- would be way low. If the level starts out low to begin with...

Lastly, there is no way to know how too full the engine is if the reading is over the max line. The sensor simply is not designed to report the oil level above the max level.

While a bit too full won't result in instant engine destruction there's a downside to running too much oil in these engines.

A too high oil level can result in the oil level in the sump (or in the case of some engines the oil tank) being too high and this results in more oil being whipped about. This increases the amount of oil vapor in the crankcase. Sure the AOS is there to remove this vapor but the AOS is not very efficient which is why these engines have the tendency to smoke upon startup.

(In the case engines equipped with an oil tank too high an oil level can reduce the efficiency of the oil vapor extraction baffling in the tank with the same negative effect as an engine with just a sump.)

As a result this oil laden vapor gets routed to the intake manifold where it then makes its way into the combustion chambers (though probably just one due to the way the vapor line is routed to the intake) and burned.

What does this mean? Well, one (or possibly two) cylinders see a good load of oil while the engine is running in the form of vapor. (When the engine is shut off and restarted if the engine smokes the oil is in liquid form.)

The burning of the oil is not 100% efficient, and this increases the amount of deposits the affected cylinders' intake valve and combustion chamber collect.

Furtheremore, with the added hydrocarbons this can put a bigger demand on the converter. It consumes more oxygen in processing the more heavily laden with hydrocarbon exhaust gases.

The engine controller detects this lower oxygen level by the #2 O2 sensor reading and adjusts the air fuel mixture of that entire bank of cylinders to bring the sensor reading back to where it should be. This almost certainly means the bank which has the cylinder or cylinders which receive the bulk of the oil vapor from the AOS runs with a slightly sub-optimum air fuel mixture.

Then with the very possible increase in engine deposits that one (or two) cylinders suffers from sub-optimum combustion. Again this is detected and dealt with by the DME.

By running too much oil the owner penalizes his engine and almost certainy makes the engine less clean running, less efficient, and for nothing.

So, the engine doesn't blow up. But that doesn't mean there isn't some cost to running too much oil in one of these engines.

The gage doesn't care how much or how little oil in the engine. It is there to provide this critical info to an owner that should care and for very good reasons.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

How do I know that?--well, besides having read the manual, I went through an oil change recently and the person doing it didn't reference the 06 specs and proceeded with the 986 specs--8.75L. After the car started and ran a bit and then was turned off, the oil level was at the top bar--I saw it and assumed he saw it but deferred to the mechanic. I left and was heading home, stopped at a light and looked at the bill and saw 9qts noted on the bill.
I called and he confirmed he added 9 qts. and I promptly turned around and watched him gently drain 1 qt. via the drain plug--it requires a deft touch of loosening just enough for the fluid to flow into a drain while still being partially threaded.

The appropriate apologies and acceptances followed, with a discussion on what he potential downside is for being up or down a qt. or some fraction there of. He seemed to think that there wasn't a terrible downside to being 1 qt. over for some limited amount of time given the size--according to him--of the case, as long as you weren't buzzing the motor. Reinforcing that, he said that racers routinely put in a 1/2 qt. to compensate for the sloshing during hard turns. I think Chevy recommends this in their various LSx configurations.I've had other mechanics recommend removing a 1/2 qt. before track days to avoid overloading the AOS and attendant smoking that happens.

I try to keep mine at the full level--rather than over--since we take the car to the track; I'm a lot more concerned with inadequate oiling in high speed turns than smoking from overloaded AOS systems--which has not occurred in nearly 6 years.

important thing (well one of them) is to be sure of the engine's proper fill amount.

The proper amount may or may not be what's in the owners manual, and it may or may not what previous or subsequent model years require.

I do not subscribe to the belief that what is right for other brands of engines is right for the Boxster engines and certainly this includes what's right for other makes of engines that are used for racing.

In the case of this racing engine if the oil is sloshing of oil in turns enough to warrant overfilling the engine with oil this suggests to me the engine builder doesn't know squat about proper race engine oiling systems and the extra oil is just a bandaid and a poor one at that since in most other engines the oil is wet sump and overfilling the engine with oil probably means even more oil is being whipped about in the crankcase which further compromises the engine's oiling and costs HP because this oil represents drag. (F1 engines pick up around 70hp from very very efficent internal oil control and oil scavaging.)

Furthermore, that your tech 'seemed' to think there wasn't a downside is not good enough for me and I don't think it should be good enough for you either.

Sure while you have not noticed any negative effects of the overfill Porsche has strongly cautioned against overfilling the engine with oil. Part of the reason is there's no way to know how much oil the engine has. If the level is over the max mark all you can be sure of is there is too much oil. That your car's work order read '9' is not good enough. What happened if the tech who can't put in the right amount of oil added '19' quarts of oil and forgot the '1'? Or added more than 9 quarts and just wrote down '9' cause that's the amount he thought should be there?

Besides, you and your indy just have your car to worry about. Porsche has a whole population of vehicles to worry about. If you (say) overfill your engine with oil and nothing happens that's ok, as far as it goes. But if every owner did this chances are there would be more owners with problems arising (which I covered in an earlier post and won't repeat here) from this than there would be otherwise. More unhappy customers. More warranty or goodwill repairs by Porsche or more bad will when Porsche refused to goodwill repairs due to customers failing to heed the cautions about overfilling the engine with oil.

I'm glad to read that at the track you should the oil level at its max level.

If the engine smokes a bit this is due to the inability of the AOS to deal with the volume of crankcase vapor and its load of oil droplets sometimes compounded by the fact the engine can't keep oil from collecting in some corners of the engine (mainly under the front of the right hand camshaft cover) under certain extreme track conditions properly.

The engine smokes a bit as the vapor loaded with oil droplets is routed to the intake and burned in the engine. Running the engine lower on oil is risking the engine for the sake of relatively harmless smoking -- at least compared to the more serious and immediate risk to the engine -- and is not a trade off I'd care to make under any circumstances.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Marc:

I agree the correct amount is better rather than under or over. I've also developed a dislike to this electronic measuring system rather than the dipstick because of the imprecision of anything in the over zone--it could be 1/2 qt. or 3 over. A dipstick to me makes great sense to me --even as a back up--despite causing a few cents more.

I've had 4 mechanics work on this car since I've owned it and have heard several different views on how much oil or which oil should be used from the bunch--all Porsche trained mechanics. I'm not keen on less than either a full oil level and 0W-40 for track service yet I have gotten that as a recommendation.

Just as a BTW, during that oil change, the indy found a loose axle shaft bolt-- one that screws into the tranny case; it was1/4" out and was literally not even hand tight. The exposed threads had enough crud on them to make it look like it had left the factory that way. I can't tell you how many times the car had been been into shops since I bought it where something like this might have been noticed--but wasn't.

Quote
MikenOH
Marc:

I agree the correct amount is better rather than under or over. I've also developed a dislike to this electronic measuring system rather than the dipstick because of the imprecision of anything in the over zone--it could be 1/2 qt. or 3 over. A dipstick to me makes great sense to me --even as a back up--despite causing a few cents more.

I've had 4 mechanics work on this car since I've owned it and have heard several different views on how much oil or which oil should be used from the bunch--all Porsche trained mechanics. I'm not keen on less than either a full oil level and 0W-40 for track service yet I have gotten that as a recommendation.

Just as a BTW, during that oil change, the indy found a loose axle shaft bolt-- one that screws into the tranny case; it was1/4" out and was literally not even hand tight. The exposed threads had enough crud on them to make it look like it had left the factory that way. I can't tell you how many times the car had been been into shops since I bought it where something like this might have been noticed--but wasn't.

it often to keep track of the oil level. When I had the 06 GTO and its dipstick oil level system it felt so lame to have to walk to the car, open the door, release the hood latch, then open the hood and pull the stick out, wipe the end off and then insert the dipstick in and pull it out and try to make out the oil level on the thing. About all I could tell is the oil level was within some point between the mix and max level, most of the time. With fresh oil sometimes the level was hard to determine. There's less than perfect light at gas station drives and then not every one drives in perfect weather. Get out the car to check the oil level in a blowing rain storm, near blizzard conditions, or just freezing cold or blistering heat is a pain.

If a tech tells you that more oil than max is ok he's not imho qualified to work on the car, I don't care what credentials he may have.

The factory info is very clear on this and that is the oil level should be between the max and min though the instructions I've been able to come across clearly state that adding the specified amount of oil to the engine should have the oil level at the max level, not above it and not even below it.

As I mentioned before I wondered about this and asked a tech what the tolerances are. He told me there are none. Now where there can arise some differences is when the oil is not of the right temp, or the drain time is not long enough, or perhaps the car is not level. Although my experienc is the levelness of the car does not affect the amount of oil drained from the engine. I certainly can affect the results of an oil level check which is why when I change my cars' oil I drive the cars off the ramps to check the level.

Also, the factory in several places very specifically cautions against overfilling the engine and at the other end using the low level warning as a trigger to add oil. The low oil level light should never flash. If it does the oil level is not low, it is too low.

Regarding Mobil 1 0w-40 for the track this might not be as bad as you imagine. I note you have spent considerable time on the track already and if the oil was not up to the task I think you'd know it by now.


The oil is a 40 'weight' oil and at high temp its going to as good in this regard as any 5w-40 oil or 10w-40 oil. However, if are you are 'concerned' run Mobil 1 5w-50 (not a typo for 15w-50).

Believe it not though, track use may not be that demanding on oil. The engine gets pushed hard but at pretty good speeds so the engine and coolant and even the oil receive considerable cooling. Likely the radiator fans are running too.

Because the engine rpms are kept up the oil pressure and oil flow are very high so all internals receive a good supply of high pressure relatively cool oil. Hopefully oil that doesn't have too many track (or street miles on it).

Honestly, the oil probably experiences harsher conditions during the drive to and from the track and in day to day driving when it has to deal with cold starts, short trips and long periods of idling.

(As another aside I took my Boxster into the mountains the other day and thrashed the heck out of it -- climbing a steep mountain grade in 1st or 2nd gear with the engine touching redline more than once --to the point the coolant temp climbed to 226F. Then I pulled over and sat on the side of the road and let the engine idle while I watched the coolant temp. The engine had (still has) Mobil 1 0w-40 oil and at that time about 4K Miles on it.The oil now has just over 5K and the car is booked Tuesday for an oil/filter service.)

Absent any signs of insufficient oil pressure (and with your car you'd only know this after it was too late) running a too heavy an oil is bad. The heavier oil creates more friction from its higher viscosity and this heat is created in the tiny spaces between the main and rod and camshaft bearings, at just the wrong place. A heavier oil might actually result in less oiling due to this increase in heat from friction.

Before I switched to a different oil if I were you I'd considered some deeper oil sump and an Accusump or similar system. Far and away what I read about are if the car fails on the track it is not from the wrong oil, but the absence of oil at the most critical time (anytime that is) during severe track driving. The engine or a portion of it becomes starved for oil due to the limitations of the engine's oiling system that while more than sufficient the street is not up the rigors of the track.

Sincerely,

Macster.

I went back and checked my manual and you are right, the capacity was 7.75L. When I wrote the post above, I went by memory of the conversion but I checked now and it converts to 8.19 quarts. Furthermore, I checked my actual receipt for the last oil change and they charged me for 8.0 quarts. I do remember stopping after adding 7 quarts and seeing the gauge showing half-full and the mechanic saying that adding anything else and it would show overfull. I was wrong, apparently we only added one more quart instead of 1-1/2 quarts as I said above. Regardless, the verifiable fact is that the stupid gauge should never have shown half-full after adding only 7 quarts, and it should not show "overfilled" now after putting in 8.0 quarts, even allowing for some old oil left over in the engine. And it's STILL showing overfull right now, 4000 miles later. One might expect it to drop down to merely full but it hasn't. Perhaps this is because my car never smokes and never seems to use oil at all (which also tells me there's no problem). I still say it's better to measure than to rely on that gauge. I'll run the experiment again next time, though.

doesn't ever show half full...it shows only within a narrow band at almost full. So if you put in 7 quarts, you got into the area where the gauge displays. The bars aren't quarts or litres, they are much less. If you had put in 4 quarts/litres which would be half, you wouldn't even be showing on the gauge.

..at least that was what the 986 manual said IIRC.

You are correct. What I meant was that with only 7 quarts, the gauge showed an oil level halfway between the two marks. Sorry, didn't express myself well. But with 7 quarts, it would still be 1.18 quarts low, so it shouldn't be showing up on the gauge right in the middle of the allowable range. I can only surmise that the gauge would have still been within the two marks with only six quarts. I do not run my engine with a quart low, and the idea that the gauge might let me run the engine down 2.18 quarts is very, very scary.

As Mike said, the oil gauge does not show empty to full the way a fuel gauge does. You are correct that the 06 takes 7.75 liters with a filter change. Each of the three segments shows 0.4 litres.

With 7.75 liters, your oil gauge should look like the one below. So if you're down to the last small bar (below the bottom arrow), you are 1.2 liters below full, so you would have 6.55 liters in the engine at that point. Drop another part of a liter and you're below the safe level, even though there might still be more than 6 liters in the engine, none of the segments would be lit up.. That's not enough for safe operation. (it's all on page 111 of the manual).



The oil gauge really shows no different than a dip stick. A dip stick only shows that you're within the safe range - maybe the top liter or so.

Guenter
2014 Boxster S
GT Silver, 6 Speed Manual, Bi-Xenons, Sports Suspension (lowers car 20mm), Porsche Sports Exhaust, Porsche Torque Vectoring, Auto Climate control, heated and vented seats, 20" Carrera S Wheels, Pedro's TechNoWind, Sport Design steering wheel, Roll bars in GT Silver
[www.cyberdesignconcepts.com]

The '99' had a 8.75L capacity with the 2.5L engine; the '06' has a 7.75L oil capacity with the 2.7L engine.

Any thoughts on why the higher displacement engine in the later car had a lower oil capacity? Dimensionally I think these blocks are about the same, with some changes in stroke length and other internals. Dropping a qt. of oil capacity would seem to be a pretty significant reduction but for the life of me can't think of why, other than possibly it was too large to begin with.

size of the oil sump in the engine to make it smaller and give less room for the oil to move away from the oil pickup. It could be the extra oil in the older engine was needed to keep the oil pickup covered/submerged sufficiently during hard cornering/braking, etc.

BTW, 7.75l is 8.18 quarts and that ain't bad for an oil capacity. By way of comparison, my '96 Mustang GT 4.6l SOHC V8 engine and my 06 GTO with its 6.0l OHV V8 only required 6 quarts of oil.

Also, be thankful... a co-worker has a 914 with a 993 engine in the car and the oil capacity is nearly 16 quarts. A good portion of this oil is in the oil lines that run to/from the oil coolers located at the front of the car.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

That makes sense; IIRC, the chevy small block back in the day was 5-6 qts.
16 qts--I can't imagine

Agreed, that's what the gauge *should* look like with 7.75L or 8.19 quarts; unfortunately my gauge goes all the way beyond the top arrow with 8.0 quarts in it. It was in the center or even a little above the center after we added 7 quarts (6.62L), but it should have been almost on the bottom arrow.

End of story. Loosened the oil canister/filter emptied canister. Reattached canister, started and ran a few minutes waited the 5 minutes and presto it was done! Thanks for all of the input.