Re: Don't run the engine ... |  |  |
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| Smoke upon start-up Greg - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 12:14:56 am |
Just took my 99 Boxster out of the garage here in NE Ohio. After about 20 miles, I noticed while idling at a stop, the car ran a little rough. Drove fine the rest of the time. Next day drove again to work (13 miles) and noticed the same. After work, I started the car and a puff of white or light blue smoke came out. Same rough driving. This morning I went to start the car and a big puff of smoke came out. Eventually turned on the CEL. I haven't checked the codes yet, however.
Thoughts on the issue? More importantly, can I drive it somewhere to read the codes? Can I continue to drive it without worrying about a bigger problem?
Thoughts on the issue? More importantly, can I drive it somewhere to read the codes? Can I continue to drive it without worrying about a bigger problem?
| It seems like .... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 8:25:03 am |
... you need to replace the Air/Oil separator.
I would NOT drive the car until you replace it, not even to the dealership or shop if you're not doing it yourself.
Depending on the severity of the AOS failure you could hydro lock the engine if you keep running it.
If you want yo replace it yourself, here are the instructions:
[pedrosgarage.com]
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
I would NOT drive the car until you replace it, not even to the dealership or shop if you're not doing it yourself.
Depending on the severity of the AOS failure you could hydro lock the engine if you keep running it.
If you want yo replace it yourself, here are the instructions:
[pedrosgarage.com]
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| Re: It seems like .... Greg - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 9:17:54 am |
Thanks, Pedro. That was my thought after doing some research last night. The rough engine at idle is likely due to issues with the vaccum. Usually the RPMs are around 800 but I would see it go to 1000 and 1200 just to maintain a smooth idle.
One of the pages that discussed the issue showed a picture of smoke pouring out the back on startup that looked just like my car. I figured I would test my AOS it by:
1. running car and see if there was excessive pressure on oil cap
2. removing the hose between the AOS and the intake manifold and checking for excessive oil
Do you think it would be ok to run the car for a minute to check the pressure on the cap?
Another question, some sites suggested that the AOS for my car (99) was changed and therefore needs a new o-ring, vent line, hose clamp and possibly the bellows. Any information on that?
One of the pages that discussed the issue showed a picture of smoke pouring out the back on startup that looked just like my car. I figured I would test my AOS it by:
1. running car and see if there was excessive pressure on oil cap
2. removing the hose between the AOS and the intake manifold and checking for excessive oil
Do you think it would be ok to run the car for a minute to check the pressure on the cap?
Another question, some sites suggested that the AOS for my car (99) was changed and therefore needs a new o-ring, vent line, hose clamp and possibly the bellows. Any information on that?
| Don't run the engine ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 9:38:50 am |
... anymore.
If you want to see the oil just remove the throttle body and look into the tee and intake Plenums.
If the AOS in your car has a round flat (horizontal) top you will need a new assembly which includes the bellows and a new "J" tube because the replacement AOS will be slightly different.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
If you want to see the oil just remove the throttle body and look into the tee and intake Plenums.
If the AOS in your car has a round flat (horizontal) top you will need a new assembly which includes the bellows and a new "J" tube because the replacement AOS will be slightly different.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| Re: Don't run the engine ... Greg - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 10:30:42 am |
Got it, won't run the engine. I don't suppose you have a picture of the old vs the new AOS? Let me put it this way, I bought my car in 2003 and have not replaced the AOS. So I'm thinking it is likely that I have the older type.
Interested note. In the technical manual, Porsche refers to the air oil separator as two devices inside of the oil pan.
Interested note. In the technical manual, Porsche refers to the air oil separator as two devices inside of the oil pan.
| I don't ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 10:49:31 am |
... have a photo, but as I said if the top circular part is horizontal you have the old style and will need the new J tube.
If the circular part on top is vertical you won't need a new J tube.
The AOS is actually called an Oil Separator, but commonly referred to as the Air Oil Separator.
Happy Boxsterting,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
If the circular part on top is vertical you won't need a new J tube.
The AOS is actually called an Oil Separator, but commonly referred to as the Air Oil Separator.
Happy Boxsterting,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| Re: I don't ... Greg - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 11:50:20 am |
Boxsterra - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 12:31:00 pm |
| You don't have to pull it ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 2:29:48 pm |
... in order to determine what type you have.
You can look at the top of the AOS and see if its verticl or horizontal.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
You can look at the top of the AOS and see if its verticl or horizontal.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| Re: You don't have to pull it ... Greg - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 7:36:53 pm |
An update. I pulled the upper breather line. There was a little puddle of oil in both ends of the line as well as the port on the AOS that connects to it. I think that settles the issue, huh? I would say that from the pictures below, my AOS is the newer type, right?
Greg
1999 Boxster
Greg
1999 Boxster
| That's the new type ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 8:22:48 pm |
... So you can reuse the J tube.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| Re: That's the new type ... Greg - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 9:15:44 pm |
Thanks. I did pull it out completely. Took about an hour but tore the bellows doing it. Anyway, the part number on it is 996-107-023-01. Still the new type, huh?
Is my assessment that the small puddles of oil in the j-tube ends and the connecting ports on the throttle body and AOS indicate a failed AOS?
Thanks for all your help guys. A great benefit from this exercise is that I discovered the rattle under the car was due to one of the heat shields being completely loose because it lost the 3 locking bolts!
Greg
1999 Boxster
Is my assessment that the small puddles of oil in the j-tube ends and the connecting ports on the throttle body and AOS indicate a failed AOS?
Thanks for all your help guys. A great benefit from this exercise is that I discovered the rattle under the car was due to one of the heat shields being completely loose because it lost the 3 locking bolts!
Greg
1999 Boxster
| Those are swirl pots that are used to remove air from the oil... The AOS removes... MarcW - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 3:18:06 pm |
Quote
Greg
Got it, won't run the engine. I don't suppose you have a picture of the old vs the new AOS? Let me put it this way, I bought my car in 2003 and have not replaced the AOS. So I'm thinking it is likely that I have the older type.
Interested note. In the technical manual, Porsche refers to the air oil separator as two devices inside of the oil pan.
oil (vapor) from the crankcase 'air'.
Regarding the AOS since the AOS is original and of course from 2003 it will likely be an old style, provided of course if there's been a change/update to the AOS since then.
I do not know even though my 02 is on its 3rd AOS ( the 1st replaced very early in 2004).
If you want to get the latest AOS check with your local dealer parts department for the correct AOS part # based on your car's VIN.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
| Was the car in the pic a lapis blue Boxster?... that's my car. MarcW - Thursday, 3 May, 2012, at 3:20:48 pm |
Based on your description of the symptoms I'd say the AOS is shot. As Pedro advises do not drive the car, avoid running the engine, and get it to shop to have the AOS replaced.
If the engine is run at all, it should only be run under the supervision of a qualified tech in order to confirm the AOS is the problem, if you want a tech's diagnosis before you give the go-ahead to have the AOS replaced.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
If the engine is run at all, it should only be run under the supervision of a qualified tech in order to confirm the AOS is the problem, if you want a tech's diagnosis before you give the go-ahead to have the AOS replaced.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
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