"Say it ain't so Joe".

Joseph White is the author of the WSJ story.

Big Brother is Getting Closer Every Day

Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?

Anyone who agrees with these Big Brother programs is a fool. And Big Brother programs like this are a huge inducement for me not to ever get Onstar or Sync.

Driving a new-to-me '09S in Aqua Blue Metallic. It does .5 past light speed. I made the Kessel run in less than 12-parsecs.
Motto: If you have your top up, that storm outside had better have a name!
Motto 2: Having the top up on a convertible is an oxymoron. Don't be a (oxy)moron.

WOW! Gotta love that best rate. .....but who drives only 500 miles a year? I've often driven more than that in a day.

I'll be somewhere way behind the back of the line for that little device.

Big problem with this is that the device doesn't track whether they routinely run red lights/stop signs, text while they drive, turn right from the left lane, etc. Slow drivers and short-distance drivers may not necessarily be the safest drivers out there. In fact, my theory is that those who don't drive a heck of a lot are worse drivers due to lack of experience and they can be spooked in general by driving. Also, on those that follow the speed limit, I feel that they are doing something wrong/illegal and don't want to be stopped for speeding and get caught. Cautious drivers have something to hid. If you had a few too many at dinner, you're not going to speed and bring attention to yourself.

Now, what would be useful is for insurance companies to give you a device that lets authorities know you have insurance via electronic signals. Cops could then easily "spot" those without the device and arrest them for driving without insurance. Uninsured motorists must be a bigger risk to the insurance companies than those with a lead foot.

Spot on--excellent points.

I Live in a rural area, drive mostly interstates--rarely in the big cities and if this device is sold as advertised, I get penalized since I drive more than the average--because I live farther out.

The simple question to this--and I think the insurers already know this--is how many under 25 drivers are on the policy, what's your driving record and how far do you drive to work. My guess is if they know the answer to those 3 questions, they have a good handle on how likely you are to submit a claim.

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

I told my wife, when I saw the progressive commercial, that we would never get one of those. She asked why, and then I said 'Have you ever ridden with me?'. Then she understood! Hope we aren't forced into stuff like that. Big Brother....

A long as I can turn it off when I'm not in traffic.

They should charge more for people who drive during rush hour as there are more accidents then.

It's like coupons: if you don't participate you're paying for the people who do.

CA insurance and government regulation is driving this.

I can't believe the insurance companies are happy about this, though, but I do not think they have a choice if they want to continue to be allowed to write car insurance in CA. I suspect insurance companies envision this as a blunt instrument to force people to drive less or pay dearly for driving more.

In other states rates are based on how you drive which is used to produce a drive score.

I've worked on products that work both ways. Measure how much you drive and how you drive and at what times.

Working on yet another product -- have one in both of my cars -- that tracks how much, when and where you drive, so you can be billed if you venture into a congested area when these become popular. SF was thinking of implementing congestion charging as are other congested cities, using London as a model.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

my insurance rates have been based on mileage (declared each year) and driving record. I just got back to the "best driver" category after totaling my Porsche 5 or so years ago.

For drivers to voluntarily install this type of monitoring device, in order to qualify for discounted rates, is one thing...but being forced to have one (whether by an insurance company or anyone) seems a long, LONG way off. Like not in my lifetime.

Remember when the EZ-Pass system first came out? I refused to use them for years because I feared the data could, and therefore would, be used to issue speeding tickets. After five, six years or so, when I was satisfied that this was not in fact the case, did I finally break down and get one. Now of course each car has one. Anyway, I imagine there would be tons of legal challenges to any attempted mandates for tracking devices. In the immortal word of Vizzini: "Inconceivable!"

On the other hand, they've become an ingrained convenience, like AC and electric window lifts in cars. (And now windstops in convertibles!) Perhaps someday they'll be the only way to have access to toll roads, kind of like NYC Subway's MetroCard. Then the authorities can use them for ticketing.

Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2012 12:49AM by Laz. (view changes)

I worked in personal lines underwriting for many years for several companies. The first looked for indicators of lifestyle stability - married, no young drivers, "appliance" type cars, long time on the job, homeowner, clean driving record - these got the best rate. If a couple got divorced, we non-renewed them both, thinking that the emotional and financial upset would cause distracted driving, leading to accidents. As political correctness (some might say enlightenment) took hold, such subjective evaluations became impossible and driving record, driver age and vehicle type became more important in the decision as these factors are more supported by data. Now many companies are using something called the "Insurance Score" which is similar to banks' credit score and like the bank's score, secret but actuarial derived. The industry went from 200+ rate classes to over 40,000 but insurance score is really a substitute for lifestyle factors. Meanwhile, California, as ground zero of political correctness, tried to develop a single payor car insurance system based on fuel usage, paid at the pump. This didn't fly for many reasons - company lobbying, the safety lobby (big cars are "safer" than small cars) etc. but it is likely that Progressive's big brother device was inspired by this. Be very concerned it this takes off within the insurance industry. Be also concerned if the "black boxes" which are part of all cars for emissions testing become part of insurance underwritng and vehicle warranty decisions. Your car can tell your dealer how often you hit the rev limiter, probably in which gear.

number of times the engine red line is reached, or even exceeded. Also, there are I'm sure other data/metrics accumulated that indicates how the vehicle is being used.

I have observed this process of reading the data during my visits to various dealer service departments. I see a diagnostics computer hooked up and I view the screen and see a on-going scan taking place. The various controllers/subsystems are displayed and some progress indicator is visible.

When I asked about this at one dealer a tech told me that "about 20 pages of data" is collected and sent back to the factory. This happens automatically without any direction from the tech who can't edit the data, block it, and has limited ability to view the data.

The diagnostics computer appears to have its own secure wireless network link that then uses the dealer's network link to PCNA to send this data to PCNA and then on to the factory.

Oh, I'm pretty sure (more than pretty sure) no location data (for those cars that have a built in NAVI system) is collected. The data collected is engine operating data, stability and traction and ABS system operating data, that kind of stuff.

Anyhow, based on what I have that is public info (well public if one buys/reads the right SAE/ISO OBD2 specifications (some are hundreds of pages thick...)) about the only thing Porsche won't know from the data this scan collects is what type of coffee you like to drink in the car.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Quote
Gary in SoFL
"Say it ain't so Joe".

Joseph White is the author of the WSJ story.

Big Brother is Getting Closer Every Day

Progressive is big on government control

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