Re: Stereo Help. Is this the amp?

I take it that the box circled in red is the amp in the "frunk" of my Porsche. I have dash speakers and door mounted speakers. I am looking to upgrade to the 21st century with Bluetooth, android phone compatibility and possibly future Sirius XM.

Do you recommend I try to bypass this when I do a stereo install, and remove this amp and put a mid-level aftermarket one in its place?



I currently have the Becker CDR220 in an '01 Boxster S.

Thanks,
Peter

Howdy. Yes, that's the amp. It's generally considered a "basic" amp. Others would call it crap. But it's been in there for this long...why not keep it. I'm far from a stereo pro, but I'll echo what I've heard here over the years. If you want to improve your sound, even with the stock head unit, upgrading the amp & speakers (+sub) is the way to go. If you're going to update the speakers, you'll want to update the amp too. Updating the amp without updating the speakers will be a marginal improvement. My suggestion is, if you're just looking for cool new features, just swap the head unit and leave the rest alone. If you want new features and better sound, replace everything. There are (very expensive, IMHO) options to add connectivity features to your stock head unit if you want to stay stock.

Now, do i suggest you replace it? I don't know. The stereo, aside from BOSE, is awful, although i presume its majority speaker related. The BOSE is simply flawed. I'd start with speakers and head unit until the quality or lack of same of the amp is known.

Funny advice from a guy who used to design high end amps.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I'm replacing the headunit, because I want to. It's by no means a need.

The Becker CDR220 still functions, although the display sometimes goes dim. I have an aux plug in the back for my iPod or phone. I listen to music/FM radio about 30% of the time (mainly because I only have 1 album on my 'new' phone, and 1 CD in the car), and about 70% of the time, I listen to internet talk shows / podcasts which make my 30-55minute commute go better. For music, I listen with the volume set to +23 or so with the top down.

I'd like BT connectivity, because, I've had 8 conversations while driving this car in the last 4 yrs. I'm not a heavy cell phone talker. I use about 15 minutes total on my cell phone bill each month. I have it for the smart phone part of it, and Plants vs Zombies.

My past car stereo experience.
1995 Integra Hatch
Sony HU, 8(?) disc CD changer, small amp and 10" bandpass sub in the hatch, upgraded speakers in the door.
- This was in my "single, with disposable cash" days.

2002 Jetta 1.8T - daily driver
- put up with the stock HU for a yr, then added a alpine amp 4x50, bridged to power a 12" shallow sealed sub box. JL Audio?
- then a few yrs later, came MP3's and the iPod phenomenon, so I changed the HU to a single DIN that took mp3's burned to CD, and it also had an AUX in on the front.
-- I used this as my DD when the snow flies from November to March. Problem with the sub setup (it's quite good), is the heavy seatbacks do a really good job of blocking a lot of the bass, and I don't get the chest rumbles that I did in the Integra.

2001 Boxster S
- Becker CDR220 with AUX in.... future unknown.
- I highly doubt I'll get a sub, unless I can research design and make one that works behind the seat/seats.
Budget for the project - $125-200 for HU, $50-100 for 4" dash speakers, amp? $125-200, 6" door speakers $50-125

This will be a self install over my holidays.

I had a great improvement just installing new dash speakers in my previous 01. The OEM amp powered them just fine. I didn't do the head unit because I wasn't looking for all the connectivity you are. Be aware that to replace the dash speakers requires some modification/fabrication to the speaker mounting bracket. I have some old pics I can dig out if you need guidance, but there are other sources of "how to" floating around too.

Current Love: 2008 RS60; 1st Love: 2001 base, triple black

Is the amp, and the next weakest is often the head-unit. I know, i know that's the old sterophile school of thought, only speakers matter. But Google me, i designed a lot of the very high end amps out there, or that were out there not that long ago.

But car amps are different. A normal amp, i used to say, is a "modulated power supply". 80% of the cost and complexity of a power amp is typically in the AC --> DC power supply. Huge transformers, capacitors, regulators, inductors, whatever.

In a car, you have a battery. No need for a power supply of any kind, if you can keep the voltages under 12v; you have nearly limitless, pure DC. Bellissimo!

Plus, as i've argued - going for high end in a car is like looking for a dry ocean. Its an awful environment beginning with a hgih noise floor (crap s/n/r) and poor acoustics.

The amp in there is large. I've never opened it, but there must be something in that box. So i'd spend less time on it and more on the speakers AND GROUNDING!

Not arguing against amps. Its juts that my priority would be speakers --> head unit (bad initial sound cant be made better) --> amp(s).

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

-gardless.

Now why cant we edit these things except for the first 5 minutes. Is this a simple setting that can be changed. drives me nuts.
(well, of course i'm already nuts, but....)

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2013 02:33PM by grant. (view changes)

The reason given way back for not editing after 5 (more like 15?) minutes is that one has all the time before posting to "edit." Then again, there is a mysterious hindsight effect that shows up errors, vagueness, etc, afterwards.

the speakers are definitely the weakest part of the Boxster system. I would start by spending most of your budget on speakers. You may be satisfied at that point.

I disagree with Grant on the second priority in this setup; I would go with a better amp. The preamp in the Becker radios is not great but it is not as limiting as the amp, which is just bad.

Also, if you're playing from an iPod or iPhone, chances are you're already crippling the sound quality before the preamp.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I did an A-B test between the stock amp and a mid-grade one (Alpine PDX 4.150) and the latter sounded much better.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Hey Grant,

Would it make a noticeable difference at modest listening volumes to have a HU with 4v preouts vs 2.5vpre outs? Considering two Kenwood products. KDC-BT855U for $229 from crutchfield dot ca with harnesses included(?) vs a KDC-x597 locally for $189 plus about $51 for the harnesses.

Peter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2013 11:52AM by Petee_C. (view changes)

I had the same amp and the same setup in my '01. I replaced the amp, the head unit, all of the speakers and installed a small subwoofer behind the passnger seat. I am much happier with the stereo now. I reccomend replacing that amp. It's not very effective. You will need to find something small to fit in that space. A professional installer can build a nice little shelf to mount the amp on without interfering with the spare tire or anything else.

that the amp "is not very effective"?

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Petee C,

Your instincts are correct. That OEM HU and speakers are junk. Replace them with a modern HU and component or matched up speakers. It may run you 1500$ -2000 but you already know its worth it. I did this approx 6 months ago and have never regretted it. On another note.. I kept my HU kinda low key so that it did not attract some idiot who would be willing to cut the top to get to the head unit.

I know each person has their own preferences for audio gear. Me I went with a Kenwood HU that would accept usb thumb drives, sirius capable, but I have had that before and the novelty is gone for me. I went with a JBL Audio snall footprint 5 channel amp in the frunk and a mix of Alpines and Kickers for door and dash. Also had a custom box made for the deck with 2 x 6" subs. The custom box was needed because I wanted to be able to open and close the top w/o any interference...and it works out well for me.

Happy hunting and I would say just pull the trigger and get it over with asap. That original deck, becker, pecker, whatver the hell it is.. belongs in the junk pile.

Best advice I can give (I'm sure you already know this) is to take it to a known, reputable installer, someone who has their own shop and has worked on a wide variety of high end cars. For me there are many in the ATL area and they love doing this kind of work.

Good luck mate and hope you post some pictures later.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2013 10:39AM by chris & 987. (view changes)

I purchased a JVC Arsenal KD-A95BT head unit, nothing fancy, but does BT, USB, satellite (optional part I use the AUX to connect mine). it can also pair 2 cell phones which is handy. I also have upgraded the dash speakers to Polks, and also purchased Harvey's rear speaker setup a few years ago. I picked up a 6x40 AMP that is the stock upgrade, I think I had to run wires through the firewall for the extra 2 speakers, but it's been a while, so not sure. I would like to next upgrade the door speakers and get a better AMP or maybe add a pre-amp, still undecided which way to go. I like the head unit, and it was an easy switch from the stock unit, Crutchfield included the adapter cable so the swap took about 30 minutes, not bad and a nice upgrade.

-Eric