Re: Depends

Not that I'm in the market--gasp--but just saw a lease deal that caught my eye from our dealer for a 991 with an MSRP of $90K: $799/month for 24 months and $7K down with 10K miles over the life of the lease.

Have no idea what the residual value of the car is after 24 months but I'm thinking this deal is probably pretty close to a 981CS with a sticker of around $70K. A base 981 with a sticker of $55K is quoted for $589/month + $5200 down--same mileage and time frame. So for roughly an additional $200/month and $2k up front, you're driving a 911 for 2 years.

By comparison, I met a guy at a recent event that was driving a new 991 with a sticker of about $100k and he said his 2 year deal was about $1100/month.

Smoking deal or no?

$2k more up front and $200 more per month for what many automotive journalists currently regard as Porsche's second-best sports car. How much is the 911 cachet worth to you?

I hear what you're saying Roger--having voted with our $'s in the past 14 years for the Boxster platform, but there are people out there that probably think 911 before they think of Boxster, as far as desirable Porsche cars. Add to that, there are a lot of long-time Porsche owners that didn't see the 986/987 platform as a real Porsche, although that may change with the 981 platform.

I haven't leased a car in a while, but for those people that are looking for a short term (and very low usage) deal in a sporty/exclusive coupe, this may be the ticket. Makes me think Porsche is trying to goose base 911 sales right now for some reason; hmm, you know that new Corvette C7 is due out next month....

I think the C7 is going to do some serious damage to Porsche -- the C7 is probably the first piece of American iron I'd actually be interested in, and for the price of a base 981, you're getting 911 performance, with what appears to be really good build and design. People looking at a 911 will be swayed for the price, and people looking at the 981 may be swayed by the performance offered by the C7 for the same or less money. Not to mention the fact that the 981 option list pricing looks like it was developed by Jimmy Choo or Louboutin (believe me, I know -- I've been in those stores and can't believe what women pay for shoes -- makes my Bridgestones look really cheap).

Porsche used to offer something that was head and shoulders over the competition -- a driving experience that you couldn't really get anywhere else. Today, the marketplace is jammed with pretty fine cars, and performance is reached a point where legal limits are quickly reached. Couple that with the changes to the Porsche from performance to more of a luxury marque, and you've got a condition of Porsche sinking it's head, while other raising theirs, and so Porsche has lots of competition in the marketplace that it no longer surpasses.

Interestingly, I've always thought that the Boxster was far more desirable than the 911 -- less money, more fun, better handling and balance, and that you could get to the limits without losing your license. Couple that with the 550 Sypder heritage, and I've never understood why a lot of people thought the 911, with the engine hung way out back, was the car to have, other than the iconic nature of it, and the raw acceleration.

Looking at the lease, which is where this post started from, they're trying to get more cars into the marketplace, and I suspect they're feeling the competition. However, 5k miles/year -- that's nothing. I guess this would be a case of being able to say one has a Porsche in their garage, because you're not going to be driving it much. I put about 7k on my car annually, and it's not driven half the year (garaged in the winter), and I often need a four passenger vehicle.

Quote
m4240z
I think the C7 is going to do some serious damage to Porsche -- the C7 is probably the first piece of American iron I'd actually be interested in, and for the price of a base 981, you're getting 911 performance, with what appears to be really good build and design. People looking at a 911 will be swayed for the price, and people looking at the 981 may be swayed by the performance offered by the C7 for the same or less money. Not to mention the fact that the 981 option list pricing looks like it was developed by Jimmy Choo or Louboutin (believe me, I know -- I've been in those stores and can't believe what women pay for shoes -- makes my Bridgestones look really cheap).

On paper the C7 looks great; I have not seen the car in person but I like the pictures that I have seen.

Regarding how much damage the C7 will do to Porsche sales, I guess we'll just have to see if that happens. I think you can make an argument that many prospective and current Porsche owners might not be terribly interested in a Corvette, regardless of the value it may represent performance-wise; there is a particular cachet that attracts some car buyers to Porsche that I don't believe they would get in driving a Corvette.

Having said that, given the kind of performance numbers that the car is reportedly capable of, it sounds like an awesome track day car that should be able to run with a 911/911S. The key issue with this car will be QC, a weak point for Corvettes over the years especially with new cars; I hope they get it right out of the box.

I would be surprised if there would be a lot a cross-shopping of the 'vette and Porsche.

Regarding the lease question, I didn't mean to imply that there's anything at all wrong with the 991 - clearly it's an outstanding car. And, it offers a backseat, which would be extremely important to me if I were to get another dog, and it IS the iconic Porsche sports car. That, too, has value. And I think a golf club bag will fit.

The 981 has really and truly turned it up a notch. As much as I love my 987, I can't help but think that, with the 981, the Boxster is now fully grown-up, for lack of a better expression. Its performance, particularly that of the S, has truly moved into 911 territory. And its looks have matured. I don't think those who regard the 986/987 as a girlie-car would feel the same about the 981.

R

Quote
Roger987
I would be surprised if there would be a lot a cross-shopping of the 'vette and Porsche.

Regarding the lease question, I didn't mean to imply that there's anything at all wrong with the 991 - clearly it's an outstanding car. And, it offers a backseat, which would be extremely important to me if I were to get another dog, and it IS the iconic Porsche sports car. That, too, has value. And I think a golf club bag will fit.

The 981 has really and truly turned it up a notch. As much as I love my 987, I can't help but think that, with the 981, the Boxster is now fully grown-up, for lack of a better expression. Its performance, particularly that of the S, has truly moved into 911 territory. And its looks have matured. I don't think those who regard the 986/987 as a girlie-car would feel the same about the 981.

R

I agree with all your points, Roger.

Just yesterday my 991c was parked next to a 981c, and from the back, it was hard to tell them apart. Equipped similarly, it would be hard to justify the $25K delta, at least for me.....next time BTW, golf bag fits easily in the back of a 991.

Oh, and the Cayman was Rhodium Silver, a breathtaking color.

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

I don't know if anyone else here owns both a Boxster and a Corvette, but I have to say that they are two completely different cars. I own a 2008 Corvette coupe with the Z51 autocross suspension and manual transmission. Performance numbers don't convey the huge difference in "feel" between the two. The Boxster allows me to feel every imperfection in the road surface, and not in a bad way. The Boxster's responsiveness to steering input reminds me of a go-kart my brother owned when I was 17 years old. The Corvette was a lot of fun at HPDE, and I was fairly fast with it. I reached a point where I would have had to put in a racing harness to improve, and I decided to go cold turkey on track driving, as my enthusiasm combined with aging reflexes was not a good combination.

Leasing a Porsche robs a person of one of the more enjoyable aspects of ownership. PCA requires that you be a Porsche owner for membership. Leasing is regarded as long term rental. I'm a new Porsche owner, but my wife and I have already enjoyed a drive among Wisconsin's curvy back roads with the local Porsche club (which requires PCA membership).

Steve

Quote
SteveJ (2010 987 base, manual trans)

Leasing a Porsche robs a person of one of the more enjoyable aspects of ownership. PCA requires that you be a Porsche owner for membership. Leasing is regarded as long term rental. I'm a new Porsche owner, but my wife and I have already enjoyed a drive among Wisconsin's curvy back roads with the local Porsche club (which requires PCA membership).

Steve

Not sure that is correct. the PCA site says: Membership is open to all Porsche owners, co-owners or lessees, who are 18 years of age or older. '

Quote
Lawdevil & CURVN8R

Quote
SteveJ (2010 987 base, manual trans)

Leasing a Porsche robs a person of one of the more enjoyable aspects of ownership. PCA requires that you be a Porsche owner for membership. Leasing is regarded as long term rental. I'm a new Porsche owner, but my wife and I have already enjoyed a drive among Wisconsin's curvy back roads with the local Porsche club (which requires PCA membership).

Steve

Not sure that is correct. the PCA site says: Membership is open to all Porsche owners, co-owners or lessees, who are 18 years of age or older. '

Basically, all you need is a unique VIN number for a Porsche to join (and I'm not sure about the unique part). Not that I'm suggesting this, but you could get one from a junk yard and I'm not sure if they'd care.

Dave - 06 987 S coupe SG/NL; gone (but still my first love): 03 986 AS/GG/BK;

Quote
SteveJ (2010 987 base, manual trans)
I don't know if anyone else here owns both a Boxster and a Corvette, but I have to say that they are two completely different cars. I own a 2008 Corvette coupe with the Z51 autocross suspension and manual transmission. Performance numbers don't convey the huge difference in "feel" between the two. The Boxster allows me to feel every imperfection in the road surface, and not in a bad way. The Boxster's responsiveness to steering input reminds me of a go-kart my brother owned when I was 17 years old. The Corvette was a lot of fun at HPDE, and I was fairly fast with it. I reached a point where I would have had to put in a racing harness to improve, and I decided to go cold turkey on track driving, as my enthusiasm combined with aging reflexes was not a good combination.

Leasing a Porsche robs a person of one of the more enjoyable aspects of ownership. PCA requires that you be a Porsche owner for membership. Leasing is regarded as long term rental. I'm a new Porsche owner, but my wife and I have already enjoyed a drive among Wisconsin's curvy back roads with the local Porsche club (which requires PCA membership).

Steve

Your 987 allows you to feel every imperfection in the road surface. i drove the 981, and that's been heavily dialed back with the electric assisted steering. It's a much easier car to drive fast, but it has, to me, a bit of a synthetic feel that is becoming the great equalizer over cars. I think the C7 feel will be improved over the C6 (to say nothing of the design and the apparent quality of the materials and build), and the 981 is a bit more isolating -- so the two may be closer than you think in terms of handling and feel. The whopping HP and engine power with a stonkin' great V8 is going to be a bit of a game changer, but then, on the other hand, the mid-engine location of the 981 is a big offset.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Quote
Roger987
I would be surprised if there would be a lot a cross-shopping of the 'vette and Porsche.



R

I think with the C6 there was little or no cross shopping. However, with the C7, I think it's a bit of a game changer. People that don't want to lay out the coin for a P-car, but want performance, and it appears the QC is good in the new car could be conversion candidates.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Interesting thread.

The Corvette vs Porsche rivalry is renewed. I think that is great. Im sure the pros and cons of each will be sliced and diced by consumer, customers, car mags, and auto affficianados world wide. But as a relatively new porsche owner (2 years) I choose porsche over Vette. They main reasonings at the top of my list are car lineage and heritage. I wanted to be part of an ownership group that was not worried with dramatically changing the car's asthetics every 2 or 3 years to attract more customers. I dont know If I could not say the same for vette. IMHO it has struggled with it's image over the years.

I do admire the vette line and have been around them for years as my brothers (3) are vette owners and many friends have had them as well. I choose porsche over vette for specific reasons. Hell If I was Chevrolet, or BMW, Ford, Chrysler, Audi, Jag, I would be focusing on trying to catch up/keep up with porsche too.

At the end of the day I am happy with Porsche and specifically my choice of car.

and was horribly unimpressed. The mass media article had a "Porsche killer" tone but the lines of the exterior from the photos at least had no appeal. And the interior looked worse. To each his own....

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/autos/2013/08/15/chevrolet-corvette-stingray/index.html

it's very much derivative of the 458 Italia without the Ferrari's consummate grace, and a lot of Lamborghini aggressive edging zig-zags.

Quote
mikefocke, '01S Sanford, NC
and was horribly unimpressed. The mass media article had a "Porsche killer" tone but the lines of the exterior from the photos at least had no appeal. And the interior looked worse. To each his own....

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/autos/2013/08/15/chevrolet-corvette-stingray/index.html

Wow! That black and yellow makes it look like a Viper, Gimmicky

in my opinion the Boxster designers dropped the ball completely by ignoring the fact that many potential Boxster buyers are golfers as well. Arguably loosing a large percentage of new buyers.

Us kool-aid drinkers would buy the car, golf club friendly or no, but I would think this could be a barrier to a first time buyer or lessee that may not be pushing the car much at all but into the new styling mostly and does golf. No golf bag fit--no thanks.

Between the e-steering, small trunk, and tarted-up looks (yeah, I heard that one) the car's headed for the dustbin of commercial history.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2013 04:32PM by Laz. (view changes)

Quote
Laz
Between the e-steering, small trunk, and tarted-up looks (yeah, I heard that one) the car's headed for the dustbin of commercial history.

You talking about the 'vette or the 981?

(I think you lifted your post from a 'vette board....)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2013 06:26PM by m4240z. (view changes)

Well, the 50s models had their charm (not that red thing I'm sitting in)

two classics