Re: anyone ever roll a boxster?

A friend was scolding me about how dangerous convertibles are, and I got to wondering how hard it would be to roll one. I assumed it would be pretty difficult. Turns out, someone has a clip of what it looks like on youtube. For the curious.... [www.youtube.com]

Unless you have rough terrain to tilt the car and catch a wheel (going sideways of course) - its not easy to get one of these things shiny side down.

It also shows why, if you do go off-roading, try to go straight.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Are the folks who maintain them typically extra careful about having level terrain surrounding the track?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2013 12:45PM by Steve (Iowa). (view changes)

Tracks vary widely. Some have lots of run-off, others, notably Watkins Glen, almost none. At the Glen, you may only have 3 feet of grass before a safer barrier or tire wall. Or, such as at turn 9, none at all.

What the Glen does have is either gravel or paved areas beyond the curbing on certain turns - 1, bus stop, 9...

Other tracks have lots of run-off, or varied amounts - Pocono in the infield, parts of Mid-Ohio, Lime Rock, NJMP and VIR have large spaces. Other parts of those same tracks have relatively little space between track and wall. Typically, the grassy areas are smooth (ish). I've have several off-track experiences and rolling is rarely an issue; unless its really wet and soft and you get sideways. OTOH they are often NOT level - e.g. parts of Thunderbolt and VIR are severely sloped - which could be very, very bad. A great example is VIR where, at the end of the longest straight, you enter a set of downhill curves - since you are going down, so is the grass on the sides. Stay off it.

My one very bad experience was at Lightning in a space where there was relatively good runoff. But it was very wet, and its kinda hard to steer your way to safety when the car is spinning - sideways and backward. Good news - nothing even resembling a roll. Bad news - bang, sideways into the barrier. That was very costly - and my confidence is still recovering (it was less than a year ago). Wet grass is about the same coefficient of friction as, say, ice. Actually, really cold ice might be grippier.

You can look at race tracks on Google or Bing maps, using the satellite photo to see the outline, and some of the run-off areas. You generally learn the worst areas to run off (like anywhere at WG) and the less terrible areas. Hey i picked a "less bad" area and still did $16k worth of damage to my wallat.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Quote
grant
Unless you have rough terrain to tilt the car and catch a wheel (going sideways of course) - its not easy to get one of these things shiny side down.

It also shows why, if you do go off-roading, try to go straight.

Grant

+1.

Most instructors tell you that if you know you're going to go off, get the wheel straight to minimize the possibility of catching a wheel and rolling. If you cross a ditch I would think you still have a chance of rolling, but your odds are better with a straight wheel.

From the pictures it looks like the passenger compartment held up well--windshield support still

A couple years back, a boxster rolled at a local course (Nelsons) multiple times. No one hurt but the windshield frame sagged a bit, influencing a number of club members with Boxster that tracked their cars to go with a full cage.

that common wisdom holds TWO things:

1. if you have to go off, go off straight
and
2. both feet in

They are not always in conflict, but #2 often makes it hard to maintain #1.

If you can do both, all the better. One caveat that i used at a very wet Pocono once - if its very rough or very soft - don't brake hard in the field. Keep the nose up and ride it out, presuming lots of space. I actually threshold braked until i ran out of racing surface, then quickly straightened the wheel and rolled off the brake to keep the nose up. A bit of grass in various places, but otherwise not even a wheel out of balance.

And eventually, i plan to have a full cage in the Blue Beast.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Obviously the rollbars and seatbelts did their job of keeping the occupants safe.

I think it would be pretty hard to roll a Boxster partly because of its low center of gravity. I'd think you'd need to be sliding sideways (like this one was doing) and hit a curb, rock or something that would suddenly block a wheel from sliding to roll one.

hence my pussy-ness on track.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

That clip is from High Plains Race way about 30 miles east of Denver. The incident happened about this time last year. I was out the day after for a PCA DE event. The boxster that rolled was out on an open lapping day on the Friday before. A few things that played into it.
1) they were doing repairs in turns 6 and 8 so they were running the short course which up until that week the PCA hadn't run.
2) A car just ahead of them had dumped coolant on the track but didn't realize it and the corner workers hadn't either.

It must be scared the hell out of the drivers. Interesting to know how it happened.

From one of our North Georgia mounting drives a few years back:



Driver had a few scratches from the bushes, but otherwise unharmed. Not sure what happened to the Boxster remains. When he rolled the car, the top was down and when the car was taken to the wrecker yard, he was able to raise and latch the top!

[i222.photobucket.com]

..... Since rule #1 is drive at a speed that you can stay on the track, ...

Rule #2 is: "If the car begins to spin, don';t try to save it - it will only spin you off the opposite side. rather, do the right theng and steer into the slide. Either bring the car to a rest or coax it back on the racing surface if the situation permits (or edmands, like runout vanishing)"

he tried to save it, as if turning the whel mroe would make the back tires catch hold. They didn't.

That said, collent may have made it very hadr to control in any event. That was my siisue that fateful dat at Lightning - oil/water made it snap-spin before i could correct (sufficiently).


Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2013 11:45AM by grant. (view changes)

Quote
grant

Rule #2 is: "If the car begins to spin, don';t try to save it - it will only spin you off the opposite side. rather, do the right theng and steer into the slide. Either bring the car to a rest or coax it back on the racing surface if the situation permits (or edmands, like runout vanishing)"

he tried to save it, as if turning the whel mroe would make the back tires catch hold. They didn't.

That said, collent may have made it very hadr to control in any event. That was my siisue that fateful dat at Lightning - oil/water made it snap-spin before i could correct (sufficiently).


Grant

Sounds about right; once he started to go off to the left, there was no good way --especially at that speed--to control it while trying to bring it back right. Better to ride it out on the left side, trying to get it slowed a bit.

The audio--2 guys in the car when it rolled? ("I'm ok, are you ok?").

Or does that club/organization allow just anyone to ride along with just anyone else?

We're very strict that if two people are ina car, one must be an instructor, regardless of whcih seat he/she occupies.

I assumed most clubs were.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Quote
grant
Or does that club/organization allow just anyone to ride along with just anyone else?

We're very strict that if two people are ina car, one must be an instructor, regardless of whcih seat he/she occupies.

I assumed most clubs were.

Grant

PCA events usually have this as an event rule; non PCA events can operate very differently--I speak from experience--and know how that "I'm OK, are you OK?" conversation goes.

Quote
grant
Or does that club/organization allow just anyone to ride along with just anyone else?

We're very strict that if two people are ina car, one must be an instructor, regardless of whcih seat he/she occupies.

I assumed most clubs were.

Grant

The Rocky Mountain PCA does not allow passengers unless they are instructors, but it was an open lapping day and not part of the DE when the roll happened. The track will allow ride alongs on open lapping days and I believe it was an instructor in the car with him helping him in advance of the DE. It was not a PCA sanctioned event at that time I am pretty sure.

Not a peep until the driver asks him if he's ok, to which he responds, "I'm o.k; are you ok?" Josh has it together.