a response....

The thread below got me thinking..... Why or why not do folks use independents vs. dealers? I guess the big items are cost, convenience, trust/expertise, in-out of warranty, and specific good/bad experiences. You comments?

I purchased my 2000 S new and now have around 175K miles on it and I use an independent. I do this primarily for two reasons: 1) lower cost of maintenance, 2) Trust in that the independent was the shop foreman at a local Porsche dealer and has well over 25 years Porsche experience. So for me, I saw no reason not to go to him although I am probably losing the two year replacement Porsche parts warranty. As I noted in a post below, this guy cuts me breaks on part as he does with a cabin air filter that the dealer charges about $75. I think he charged me less than half that as the markup was outrageous. He said to me "I just can't charge that for that part." He also knows the non-Porsche labeled equivalents for things like shocks etc.

Regarding the "special knowledge" that we perceive a Porsche mechanic needs to be good, I am interested in your comments. This guy noted to me a long time ago, when he was at the dealer, that Porsche is a very small company and that Porsche Germany, does not really help the local dealers with troubleshooting or other types of knowledge-based support very well. He said they are really tight-lipped and too small to be a significant help. True or not? Maybe he was just talking himself into leaving or starting to pre-sell services (although this was a few years before he left).

First, for many jobs i will do a better job than i can pay anyone to do. And this includes friends int he business. They say things like "you cant pay me to do that" :-)

Plus, its more hassle to take a car and drop it off than to swap brake pads or change oil or do a filter.


A good indie is certainly cheaper than a dealer. But that' not the only reason to find and use one. They, unfortunately, care more. Dealer have the power to be arrogant, and a cost structure that nearly demands a very, ahem, business like approach. Meaning using the flat rate system to charge for a 6 hour job, and get it done in 4. Guess who loses.

My indie will give me advice over the phone. Go the extra mile. Use unauthorized, but cost-saving methods like injecting grease into the notorious audi control arm ball joints to near double their lives ( catch them immediately upon groaning noise, btw).

One p-car dealer services cars for two guys at work. One paid $5000 to eliminate a rattle recently - he got a new suspension - springs, shocks, links, etc. I cannot imagine h needed more than 20% of all that. Another had calipers replaced for many thousands due to "needing them". Uhhhhh really? on a 6 year old car? Thank you, no.

My dealer? Cant say for the p-car dealer since i've never been back. But the Audi dealer did lovely things like skip portions of the "free included service" because it was too costly. And manage to screw up very costly balancing, even with the use of a Hunter 9700 RFB machine. How, i can't imagine.

Ive been using one indie for 30 years. In fact, at one time i wrenched part time while in college. Another, a p-car specialist is a more recent addition, but he's already a friend.

I trust them. I dont even ask prices - and i'm usually pleasantly surprised.

Support your local, friendly, quality indie and he'll support you.

If you happen to be in South Florida there's this guy named Pedro.........i hear he's pretty good.

/rant

Grant



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2011 01:48PM by grant. (view changes)

As with any mechanic, or any professional for that matter, there are good ones and bad ones and many in between. They can all be found at both dealers and indy shops. The key, is finding the good ones and hope that they stay put.

I've had my fair share of turning wrenches, so I do all of the work on our families cars(sans tires & alignments). I use only factory Porsche parts and torque pretty much everything to factory spec(aviation certed torque wrenches). For us, it keeps the cars to the standards we would like without fuss or issue. We tend to like the cars kept to a very high standard which would be tough through the dealer. Unfortunately, our local dealer seems to go through people pretty fast. There seems to be new people there every year which might explain some of the issues we've had with them. The dealers seem to not want to deal with "older" cars anyway which I hope Porsche recognizes and provides technical info for public purchase to keep these cars on the roads. The dealer network as it is currently set-up in North America has some serious issues and needs reform
I don't know how Porsche has been doing recent, but in the past, they have had pretty good support to techs through TSB's, updates for the manual sets, etc. Generally, I find their fixes, updated and or upgraded parts are spot on.
regards

While the car was under warranty I took it to the dealer for things covered by the warranty. I also had them do the last major service (IIRC 30k miles) and look for problems right before the warranty expired. Got a few things fixed for free including an RMS replacement.

I use my indie for some routine things and for problems. Mostly I'll change brake pads, rotors, bleed brakes, air filters, oil, oil filter, and 1 AOS. He replaced the spark plugs, 1 AOS, power steering pump reservoir, replaced rotors and calipers on the front, alignment, tire mounting and balancing, and stuff. He also has a Porsche PWIS. Since he does my DE tech form, I will sometimes just have him do the brake flush and bleed and oil change to get ready for the track.

The indie I use is GT Performance in MD. He's a PCA club racer and works almost exclusively on Porsches and more than a few of the regions DE participants use him. I've never had nor have I heard of a single problem from anyone with his work. I don't even ask anymore "how much", it's always reasonable. He's always friendly, offers good advice, asks how my track days went and when I asked if he could install a 3.2, his answer was "if you want a 3.2 just trade the car for an S and save yourself some money, if you want a 3.4 or 3.6 we can talk". And, when I asked him about the L&N IMS bearing I really liked his answer: time will tell if it's any good.

Dave - 06 987 S coupe SG/NL; gone (but still my first love): 03 986 AS/GG/BK;

With my first Boxster, 1999, I used the dealer during the warranty period, then went to an indie. I had some issues with each of them. I just hit 2 years on my 2008 and I will continue with the dealer for the next two years. I figure whatever the extra costs are for oil changes/filter, etc, it is worth it in case there is a major problem during the warranty period. After that I wlll probably go with an indie.

Dave in MD mentioned GT performance, but that is too far from me (as is Pedro . If anyone has a recommendation for a good Porsche indie shop in the general area of Silver Spring or Rockville, MD, I'd appreciate it.

As for doing your final service under warranty with the dealer, the indie shop recommended that I use them for that service as they would give it a very detailed look-see so that I could get anything that needed attention under warranty covered by the dealer. That may or may not be a good salesmanship, but it might make sense depending on how good or much you trust your dealer.

[www.turboperformance.com]

Pedro's Garage!

Can't beat the service or the knowledge ...

2001 - 2.7L

As old timer pointed out, TPC has a good reputation as does At Speed in Hanover. At Speed fixed a brake light switch for me at the track in Summit Point last year - no charge. Most of the DE drivers I know use either of them.

Dave - 06 987 S coupe SG/NL; gone (but still my first love): 03 986 AS/GG/BK;

... I took my car to the dealer was in March of 2000.
One month out of warranty with a porous-block engine.
Porsche did replace the engine on their dime.
Since then, I found this guy who works on Boxsters and hasn't charged me a dime for labor.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

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