Just figure it out, and we'll buy it... *NM*

... by our beloved manufacturer.

The new Cayman is the most underpowered sports car by Porsche.
Even the base Boxster beats it.

Let me explain.

The new Boxster has a displacement of 2.7 liters out of which they extract 265 HP. That's 98.1 HP/L,. which is decent.
The 2013 Boxster S has the same displacement of 3.4 liters as the Carrera, yet they only extract 315 HP. That's a measly 92.6 HP/L.

The new Cayman has a displacement of 2.9 liters out of which they extract 265 HP. Same as the 2.7 liter Boxster - Weird! That's 91.4 HP/L.
The new Cayman S has a displacement of 3.4 liters out of which they extract 320 HP. That's 94.1 HP/L.
The new Cayman R has a displacement of 3.4 liters out of which they extract 330 HP. That's 97.0 HP/L.

The new Carrera has a displacement of 3.4 liters out of which they extract 350 HP. That's 102.3 HP/L.
The new Carrera S has a displacement of 3.8 liters out of which they extract 400 HP. That's 105.0 HP/L.
The new Carrera 4 has a displacement of 3.6 liters out of which they extract 345 HP. That's 96.0 HP/L.
The new Carrera 4 S has a displacement of 3.8 liters out of which they extract 385 HP. That's 101.0 HP/L.
The new Carrera GTS has a displacement of 3.8 liters out of which they extract 408 HP. That's 107.0 HP/L.
The new Carrera Turbo has a displacement of 3.8 liters out of which they extract 500 HP. That's 132.0 HP/L (but it's not normally aspirated).
The new Carrera Turbo S has a displacement of 3.8 liters out of which they extract 530 HP. That's 139 HP/L (but it's not normally aspirated).

The new Panamera has a displacement of 3.6 liters out of which they extract 300 HP. That's 83.33 HP/L (but it's a sedan).
The new Panamera S has a displacement of 4.8 liters out of which they extract 400 HP. That's 83.33 HP/L (but it's a sedan).
The new Panamera GTS has a displacement of 4.8 liters out of which they extract 430 HP. That's 90.0 HP/L (but it's a sedan).
The new Panamera Turbo has a displacement of 4.8 liters out of which they extract 500 HP. That's 104.0 HP/L (but it's blown sedan).
The new Panamera Turbo S has a displacement of 4.8 liters out of which they extract 550 HP. That's 114.6 HP/L (but it's blown sedan).

The new Cayenne has a displacement of 3.6 liters out of which they extract 300 HP. That's 83.33 HP/L (but it's a truck).
The new Cayenne S has a displacement of 4.8 liters out of which they extract 400 HP. That's 83.33 HP/L (but it's a truck).
The new CAyenneTurbo has a displacement of 4.8 liters out of which they extract 500 HP. That's 104.0 HP/L (but it's blown truck).

Again, they de-tune the 3.4 on the Boxster S so it doesn't outperform the 911.
They put the same engine in both, yet on the 911 they produce 350 HP while in the Boxster S only 315 HP.
When is Porsche going to understand that many of us just will not purchase a 911 because we like the Boxster concept?
Are you listening, PORSCHE???????
You make me spend extra $$$ when you could very easily just offer the Boxster GTS with the 911 engine in place.
BTW, if you do produce it, I'll expect my Royalties.

Happy Porsche-ing
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2012 03:17PM by Pedro (Weston, FL). (view changes)

That seems substantial. Can that be easily accomplished aftermarket?

I'm sure a few pedro mods can take 92 to 102 hp/l. !!
What are they doing differently in the Carrera. Is it all in the DME?

... more than just DME remapping.
As I have discovered with the TechnoPower Kits, Porsche will include a larger throttle body and intake.
They will probably have a sport-tuned exhaust, maybe headers, and an aggressive DME remap.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

+3. Pedro certified numbers for 100hp/l !
For m96 also if possible

what? or more like WTF?!?! no, seriously, WTF porsche?

i really, really, really hate companies that play these stupid games. like airlines that charge way more to go A to B than A to C via B. So it costs less money to take two flights than one. so porsche is putting a 3.8 liter engine in one car and giving it 400 hp and putting the SAME engine in the same car (except for 4WD) and it puts out fewer horses. something is very wrong here. very very wrong.

--
MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige.
Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010

Frogster, I think that you are mixing model years. I could be wrong, but I think the 2012 (or is it 13?) 911 and 911S are out, but the 911 4S is not out yet. That is, the 3.8 engine at 385hp, is the "old" car an hp. My guess is that the "new" 911 4S will have the 400hp rating.

Pedro, of course I, and probably all Boxster owners, agree with you.

I wrote here about 2 years or so ago about how I think Porsche should market their cars. The basic concept is that like other options, engine choice across models should be an option. You can now buy a Porsche SUV, sedan, mid-engine (no rear seats) or rear engine car with rear seats. But, you can't choose your engine.

I prefer a Boxster, but there is one reason why I would buy a 911 - a rear seat for a car seat for my grandson. Then I could drive a Porsche the 1 hours out and 1 hour back after seeing him. Put a 2.7L in a 911 and sell it for $60K and I am a customer. But, I am not a buyer at $82,000. My guess is that this would increase sales for Porsche (Pedro, you can have all the royalties by allowing the SUV and sedan to be affordable to folks who can't pony up the bigger bucks for the bigger engines.

Porsche is all about hooking people into their brand. Sell less powerful SUVs and Panmeras to the younger folks and have them grow (get hooked?) into the cars for life. They will then trade up as then can during their car buying lives.

Meaning, e.g., the difference in maximum horsepower at the given rpms between the new Boxster S and the just-out-of-production Cayman S. The Boxster engine seems at first to be detuned, but the acceleration times and top speeds are somewhat similar. I'd like to see the gear ratios.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2012 12:29PM by Laz. (view changes)

This has been going on since the 60's. Horsepower numbers are a marketing tool. Marketing has more input to the numbers than the designers/engineers do. I could cite example after example, but a few would be that the Corvette had to have the highest horsepower rating, even though engines with the same displacement could be found in multiple Chevrolet vehicles. Same with Ford and the Mustang. The engines were detuned by using a different cam or sometimes used exactly the same parts, but a different exhaust was credited with the "improvement."

Recently, there was much complaining from owners of the Lexus GS460 because the EXACT same engine made 60 (IIRC) horsepower more in the LS460.

Manufacturers have the notion that their "flagship" model has to have more power (or better performance specs) than their "entry level" products. I think that Porsche is missing something obvious and that is the Boxster and the 911 appeal to different people and that owning a Boxster does not necessarily make you want a 911 (or Panamara or Cayenne). I think that Porsche should dual track its cars and have a full range of performance for each.

I know Porsche thinks that if a Boxster S with the same HP and better performance specs blew the doors of a 911 that 911 sales would suffer, but I am not so sure. I doubt that the majority of 911 owners drive their cars to the limit of performance and could care less whether the boxster outperforms the 911.

The flip side is that we know what these engines are reliably capable of and the trick is figuring out how to get the numbers up. DME tuning is an obvious place to look, the intake tract (check threads about installing the 987 airbox) and exhaust.

As soon as I get my headers/test pipes and muffler installed, I will be calling Pedro for the Techno Torque2 intake upgrade for my '02 S. Look out 996s and 997s. Porsche may have wanted you to stay ahead, but I have other ideas

No, unfortunately, it is not a marketing lie... Performance is degraded in the below flagship models.

There are too many car tests done by different media. If the Boxster really had the horsepower of the Carerra, it would have better performance numbers than the 911. It does not, so therefore the power on the Boxster is down. There are plenty of dyno numbers that reflect the lower horsepower output of the Boxster motors.

If they give the "lower" models the most horsepower a given engine can produce safely, what does that leave for the top models? Even if all the motors were rated the same, other than alternate chassis and body configurations, the incentive for purchasing a top model is diminished.

Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?

I don't mind paying for horsepower, but I don't want a 911. The Boxster is a totally different car than the 911. I'm not interested in a rear engine anything, just as I don't want a front drive anything or anything with an automatic. It pisses me off when manufacturers limit the available choices.

My point was that there a lot of Boxster owners who don't want a 911 just as there are a lot of 911 owners who would never drive a Boxster. The performance numbers don't drive the majority of the buyers of either the 911 or Boxster. I think that Porsche wouldn't lose any base 911 sales if the Boxster S had the same performance (or better). Maybe they would sell more GT2/3/4/RS/SRS/other limited edition versions.

if the performance numbers don't drive the majority of the buyers of either car, then why the concern for having the horsepower? Also, the minority for whom it does matter still influence sales numbers and profits.

It'd be interesting to contemplate the premium car being mid-engined and the "lesser" model rear engined.

Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?

Quote
Laz
.... Even if all the motors were rated the same, other than alternate chassis and body configurations, the incentive for purchasing a top model is diminished.

Not so sure - judging from Porsche's pricing philosophy and where Boxster prices are with the new 981, I would bet a 450 or 500 hp Boxster would be priced at close to the same price as the 911. Thus, rather than diluting the "prestige of the 911, they would be creating two "prestige" brands - 911 and Boxster. the Boxster could become another "variant" of the top of the line sports car. Consumers would make their choice not based upon price so much - but rather on whether they want a two seat mid-engine sports car or a roomier rear engine car. Already, the difference in price between a base 911 and the fully optioned Boxster S is not very great. I personally, would take the Boxster.

mike

With the knowledge in this community, knowing that Porsche uses common parts, it should be possible to drive a Boxster with the same hp from the above with the same engine:

I.e from Pedro's response:
Same ECU program
Evuivalent Exhaust
Equivalent throttle body, inlet, headers
Whatevever else is needed

So you can have a boxster + the max available horsepower, plus a logo showing what it has, without silly pricing.

I guess this problem for the latest is TechnoPower 4 or 5! Looking forward to ordering the TechnoPower 2 for my 986 when fun money allows

The 911 is the iconic model, after all, and they might be "afraid" of the results.

Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?